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Post by totallybolted on May 11, 2019 20:08:42 GMT -7
Just looking at the rankings. Overall the SB winning Pats Off=3rd vs Chargers Off=12th, Pats D=9th, Chargers=3rd. I though D won championships!? 3RD is prett darn good for a Defense. They can stay right there. The Bolts are close. If the Offense was a little better.... Your quip about D winning championships is disingenuous, as the Bolts' D was decimated by injuries. 3rd is pretty solid.....hope they stay there. TT has the hard part before him......getting the O, D and ST's to play high level all at once. Then all he needs is health and luck..... D winning Championships is a well known saying. Where they were with injuries is relevant at that position IMO. 3rd is outstanding. My point was more about the offense being the weal link. We all pined for DT, LB, S but OL looks to have been a MUCH bigger need. Which would support your long held position.
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Post by sonorajim on May 11, 2019 21:11:43 GMT -7
I don't get the part where everyone assumes that young O linemen cannot improve. All that have followed football a few years have seen it whether you noticed or not. Chris Dielman was an undrafted DT that became a Pro Bowl OG. The Eagles undrafted LT Jason Peters is one of the NFL's best. A lot of less dramatic examples have succeeded. Nothing is guaranteed good or bad. They just have to do it. I refuse to bet against our roster of 1st, 2nd, 3rd yr OL.
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Post by headtrip on May 11, 2019 23:41:04 GMT -7
I also think lack of depth played it's part. Those five starters were playing all game, game after game because the backups couldn't be trusted. Unless Pipkins can turn out to be a good starting RT and Lamp can beat out Schofield I don't think were are any better off this year. We're paying the price for all the times that we passed on a good OT in the draft.
Overall, I doubt the offense will be any better this year than last year because of the OL.
The offence will clearly regress, after all, we lost TW..... Okung and Pouncy are the only guys with assured positions, the other three OL spots should be up for grabs in TC 2019.....but that isn't AL's style, so you are probably correct, stuck with a similar performance from the OL. How ever will we replace those 40 catches and that touchdown? How???
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Post by NoMoreChillies on May 12, 2019 0:07:09 GMT -7
O-line does need to get better
Hoping Lamp is good Hoping Tevi improves Hoping Feeney improves Hoping Okung/pouncey dont get injured
Lotsa hopes......
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Post by frozendisc on May 12, 2019 5:48:12 GMT -7
Your quip about D winning championships is disingenuous, as the Bolts' D was decimated by injuries. 3rd is pretty solid.....hope they stay there. TT has the hard part before him......getting the O, D and ST's to play high level all at once. Then all he needs is health and luck..... D winning Championships is a well known saying. Where they were with injuries is relevant at that position IMO. 3rd is outstanding. My point was more about the offense being the weal link. We all pined for DT, LB, S but OL looks to have been a MUCH bigger need. Which would support your long held position. I was just pulling your chain a bit.... I think TT did really well in the draft, taking the draft as it unfolded, not forcing a move, and ended up with what appears to be an improved defence. Yes, that isn't what I was calling for, but TT did add solid talent at PON throughout his picks, so can't be too mad. Now we hope for Feeney taking a step in the positive, Pipkins being the shrewd pick and a starter day 1, and Lamp becoming what was hoped for when he was drafted. Clearly the Bolts need improvement at three OL positions, and the depth is weak, so let us hope TT is keeping an eye open for opportunities to improve the OL group as TC's play out.
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xenos
Full Member
Posts: 233
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Post by xenos on May 12, 2019 8:30:09 GMT -7
Weeks 1-10, we played against teams that weren't so good rushing the passer... Raiders twice (32), Bills (26), 49ers (T-22), Browns (T-22), Titans (T-16), Rams (T-16). Weeks 11-playoffs, we played some better pass rushing teams... Broncos twice (T-8), Cards (T-5), Steelers (T-1), Ravens twice (T-11). I also think lack of depth played it's part. Those five starters were playing all game, game after game because the backups couldn't be trusted. Unless Pipkins can turn out to be a good starting RT and Lamp can beat out Schofield I don't think were are any better off this year. We're paying the price for all the times that we passed on a good OT in the draft.
Overall, I doubt the offense will be any better this year than last year because of the OL.
You can't rotate OL like you can with the DL. The only reason we did it so much with Barksdale and Tevi was because the former was injured all the time, and probably had other issues that led to his release. If Lamp can beat out Schofield, we get a little bit better because it helps out Tevi as well.
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Post by sonorajim on May 12, 2019 9:06:57 GMT -7
I also think lack of depth played it's part. Those five starters were playing all game, game after game because the backups couldn't be trusted. Unless Pipkins can turn out to be a good starting RT and Lamp can beat out Schofield I don't think were are any better off this year. We're paying the price for all the times that we passed on a good OT in the draft.
Overall, I doubt the offense will be any better this year than last year because of the OL.
You can't rotate OL like you can with the DL. The only reason we did it so much with Barksdale and Tevi was because the former was injured all the time, and probably had other issues that led to his release. If Lamp can beat out Schofield, we get a little bit better because it helps out Tevi as well. Feeney and Tevi are young starters with an opportunity to improve. Schofield is roughly NFL avg at OG/RT. Lamp, Pipkins & Scott are likely prospects among the 11 OL in camp that are not returning starters.
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Post by totallybolted on May 12, 2019 10:22:26 GMT -7
I don't get the part where everyone assumes that young O linemen cannot improve. All that have followed football a few years have seen it whether you noticed or not. Chris Dielman was an undrafted DT that became a Pro Bowl OG. The Eagles undrafted LT Jason Peters is one of the NFL's best. A lot of less dramatic examples have succeeded. Nothing is guaranteed good or bad. They just have to do it. I refuse to bet against our roster of 1st, 2nd, 3rd yr OL. There are reasons to be optimistic and reasons for concern. I tend to be in the optimist camp. Mostly because, we just don't know what will transpire. Most think Tevi and schofield as eternal back ups. I'm of the opinion there is no way to know that for sure. One or both can have a break out year. The odds do not concern me. If there is anything the NFL has taught us is nothing is sure.
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Post by frozendisc on May 12, 2019 18:11:09 GMT -7
Okung and Pouncy are the only two that are of starter talent. The rest from last year have shown to be best as reserve players, not starting players. Pipkins will be interesting, as he brings all of the aspects one would want, except for the experience. Yes, there is plenty to justify serious concern. Doesn't mean they can't win. The defence keeps them in games, Rivers does enough to get a few scores, bolts get into the dance. PO's would be the challenge, but the defence might end up being good enough to win the ring all are seeking. This offence, this OL specifically, will be weakness of this team.
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Post by sonorajim on May 13, 2019 9:58:48 GMT -7
I don't get the part where everyone assumes that young O linemen cannot improve. All that have followed football a few years have seen it whether you noticed or not. Chris Dielman was an undrafted DT that became a Pro Bowl OG. The Eagles undrafted LT Jason Peters is one of the NFL's best. A lot of less dramatic examples have succeeded. Nothing is guaranteed good or bad. They just have to do it. I refuse to bet against our roster of 1st, 2nd, 3rd yr OL. There are reasons to be optimistic and reasons for concern. I tend to be in the optimist camp. Mostly because, we just don't know what will transpire. Most think Tevi and schofield as eternal back ups. I'm of the opinion there is no way to know that for sure. One or both can have a break out year. The odds do not concern me. If there is anything the NFL has taught us is nothing is sure. A lot of people admire NE's OL Coach Dante Scarnecchia and deservedly so. The Pats consistently do very well indeed with unheralded mid - late rd, UDFA OL personnel. My question would be " Are they an immediate success, start and play well their first year in the NFL?"..or does NE bring them along over a period of time? HC Lynn and his OL Coach Pat Meyer are entering their 3rd year with the Chargers. If it's possible for others to develop OL personnel, why not us? For my part, I believe hand wringing over OL is currently premature. We did OK last year and should be better. It remains to be proven, either way.
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Post by frozendisc on May 13, 2019 11:45:45 GMT -7
Every club develops players, even the Bolts and their OL guys. You think Quiz is a mainstay, or Scott.....they are currently under development.
Nobody is hand wringing......it is a message board committed to discussion about the Bolts, and that is what is going on.
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Post by moekid on May 13, 2019 14:44:58 GMT -7
There are reasons to be optimistic and reasons for concern. I tend to be in the optimist camp. Mostly because, we just don't know what will transpire. Most think Tevi and schofield as eternal back ups. I'm of the opinion there is no way to know that for sure. One or both can have a break out year. The odds do not concern me. If there is anything the NFL has taught us is nothing is sure. A lot of people admire NE's OL Coach Dante Scarnecchia and deservedly so. The Pats consistently do very well indeed with unheralded mid - late rd, UDFA OL personnel. My question would be " Are they an immediate success, start and play well their first year in the NFL?"..or does NE bring them along over a period of time? HC Lynn and his OL Coach Pat Meyer are entering their 3rd year with the Chargers. If it's possible for others to develop OL personnel, why not us? For my part, I believe hand wringing over OL is currently premature. We did OK last year and should be better. It remains to be proven, either way. I am one of those people and often ask the question you posed. Have never got a good answer. Is he that head and shoulders above everybody else. I guess he could be. Belichick is.
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Post by frozendisc on May 13, 2019 15:25:25 GMT -7
A lot of people admire NE's OL Coach Dante Scarnecchia and deservedly so. The Pats consistently do very well indeed with unheralded mid - late rd, UDFA OL personnel. My question would be " Are they an immediate success, start and play well their first year in the NFL?"..or does NE bring them along over a period of time? HC Lynn and his OL Coach Pat Meyer are entering their 3rd year with the Chargers. If it's possible for others to develop OL personnel, why not us? For my part, I believe hand wringing over OL is currently premature. We did OK last year and should be better. It remains to be proven, either way. I am one of those people and often ask the question you posed. Have never got a good answer. Is he that head and shoulders above everybody else. I guess he could be. Belichick is. It starts with the talent, and the Patriots seem to have a good eye for that talent.
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Post by boltnut on May 13, 2019 18:02:39 GMT -7
There are reasons to be optimistic and reasons for concern. I tend to be in the optimist camp. Mostly because, we just don't know what will transpire. Most think Tevi and schofield as eternal back ups. I'm of the opinion there is no way to know that for sure. One or both can have a break out year. The odds do not concern me. If there is anything the NFL has taught us is nothing is sure.A lot of people admire NE's OL Coach Dante Scarnecchia and deservedly so. The Pats consistently do very well indeed with unheralded mid - late rd, UDFA OL personnel. My question would be " Are they an immediate success, start and play well their first year in the NFL?"..or does NE bring them along over a period of time? HC Lynn and his OL Coach Pat Meyer are entering their 3rd year with the Chargers. If it's possible for others to develop OL personnel, why not us? For my part, I believe hand wringing over OL is currently premature. We did OK last year and should be better. It remains to be proven, either way. Patriots "mid/late round, UDFA OL personnel" is mainly found at the IOL positions (G/C). But the Patriots have always paid particular attention to the quality of their OT's. From 2011-2017, they had 1st round draft pick Nate Solder playing LT. In 2018, they drafted 1st round pick Isaiah Wynn. Prior to Solder, they had 2nd rounder Matt Light (2001-2011) at LT. Solder actually played RT in 2011. 2nd rounder Sebastian Vollmer (2009-2015) took over RT in 2012. That's how you do it people! In 2011, they had a 2nd round veteran at LT (Light), a newly drafted 1st rounder (Solder) at RT, and a 2nd rounder (Vollmer) riding pine as a swing tackle. This is no mistake... they are not drafting OT's in the (5th)...guys that used to be DT's...or developmental 3rd rounders from Sioux Falls. Their franchise is their QB. There is a plan. Even when their 1st round OT (Wynn) goes down with an achilles tear in TC... there is a plan. Anyone know how LaAdrian Waddle and Trent Brown came to be in New England...? They were proven/productive vets coming off injury and via trade respectively... PRE-INJURY! Marcus Cannon was the only mid/late pick @ot that was "developed". And was given 5 years before he started @rt...
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Post by moekid on May 13, 2019 20:20:00 GMT -7
I am one of those people and often ask the question you posed. Have never got a good answer. Is he that head and shoulders above everybody else. I guess he could be. Belichick is. It starts with the talent, and the Patriots seem to have a good eye for that talent. Maybe but Nate solder left for big money and crapped out completely. Coaching is underrated
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