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Post by frozendisc on Jun 9, 2019 11:52:46 GMT -7
Big problem you say.......only if there are injuries that force the depth to play too much. Otherwise, the starting OL is a problem....maybe. They need to fix ROT certainly, or at least get improved play out of Tevi, which I do not see happening. Everyone thinks Lamp is going to be the answer at OG, so that problem is solved, but again I do not see it. I think your views on the coaching staff is a tad bit unfair. I would agree they are not too creative, and that might be the big issue for both sides of the ball. Clearly the D has far more talent, and the O is held back by the poor OL group, so expect Gus to look much better than Wiz. In the end, win them all 3-0.....if only they can keep Rivers away from those pesky pick six throws. I'm not sure it's a top half of the league OL when healthy, and the Chargers haven't exactly been known for their health over the last several seasons. I think if the OLine was as good (relative to the league) as any of our other position groups then I'd feel much better about our Superbowl chances. I think this also has a lot to do with the importance of OL overall. I think, behind QB, it's the most important position on the field. Games are won in the trenches, and recent studies have shown offensive line play is more consistent while defensive line play is more dependent on the strength of the opponent's offensive line. To twist Yogi Berra's axiom, good OL beats good DL not vice versa. Luckily, I think we have the perfect QB and WR group to make up for a weak offensive line. What part of what I said would you disagree with? They are not at the level when it comes to Xs and Os of the top staffs? I don't think they are in the top quarter of the league...Rams, Pats, Chiefs, Eagles, Saints, Niners, Colts, Bears. Some of those teams don't have the talent the Chargers do (especially at the QB position) but I think they are better at getting the matchups they want and getting people open. Let's move on to clock management. I think there has been some improvement here, but I wouldn't put it on the level of a lot of teams out there. And strategy, I think the team is still too conservative both in their play mix, and their game management. I also take a bit of issue with your comparison of Wiz to Bradley. I think there is a bit more talent on the defense this season, but last year I think the O was more talented. They lost Henry, but were largely healthy and had Rivers, Allen, Williams x 2, Ekeler. Defense was without Bosa for much of the season and by the end we didn't have a LB unit. Bradley figured out how to use his personnel early, moving Square and Philon outside and getting some pass rush from them. He also figured out how to deploy James in a diverse way from game 1. How well did having 2 RB sets with Gordon and Ekeler work for the Chargers? Pretty damn well. How often were they utilized? Rarely. I'm not saying any of these issues are disastrous, I think this team will make the playoffs and has a good chance of winning the division. But, I think the main competition for the Superbowl are superior to us in those areas (New England, KC, and Indy) and I think because of it we don't make the Superbowl. Isn't that the question the OP posed? The Bolts will go as far as the play from their OL takes them. Play well, go far.....play poorly, lose. I don't like the OL group in general, think it has marginal talent, and most likely not enough talent to get to the Super Bowl. I would love to be surprised by them........ I think the coaching staff, and Wiz or Gus specifically, have the abilities to match up against anyone in the game. Yes, Belichick is awesome.....I know, but he loses games every year just like everyone else. The thing I do not like about the coaching staff is the propensity for being far too conservative. I hate it, fans hate it, and most importantly, the players hate it. It won't change under AL, and I do not think that style will get them to the Super Bowl, much less win it. They can't play recklessly, obviously, but they should have a good dose of unexpected each week. The Bolts have a very talented roster, one that can match up to any team in the league. Stay healthy, they have as good a chance as the teams you listed. If all stay healthy, Bolts' OL might be the difference between winning and golfing.
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Post by sdc on Jun 9, 2019 11:52:59 GMT -7
Amen!! The only guys that have thrown more are Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning. He should be ashamed to be included on any list with those clowns. Btw, I don’t believe you are capable of loving anyone but yourself. Rivers is a HOF player......nothing more to say. What is with the hate towards me? No hate. You just seem to be very critical of this team and it’s players.
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Post by frozendisc on Jun 9, 2019 11:58:10 GMT -7
Rivers is a HOF player......nothing more to say. What is with the hate towards me? No hate. You just seem to be very critical of this team and it’s players. I only love myself is pretty disparaging comment. I like the roster for the most part, but seriously think the OL is not good, which is where my criticism is usually directed. I like TT and the job he is doing, would not make a change. I like AL, but he needs to win to stay.
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Post by sdc on Jun 9, 2019 14:47:23 GMT -7
No hate. You just seem to be very critical of this team and it’s players. I only love myself is pretty disparaging comment. I like the roster for the most part, but seriously think the OL is not good, which is where my criticism is usually directed. I like TT and the job he is doing, would not make a change. I like AL, but he needs to win to stay. The offensive line is not elite but it was average to slightly above average last season. Pouncey wearing down was a large part of the late season fade. No one had a clue that Tevi would be starting. Both he and Feeney are young and will continue to develop. I am in the pro Lamp camp. Just as I was with big Mike last season. He will push someone for a starting job. Don’t get your undies in a bunch and just admit that you hold yourself in an incredibly high regard. |
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Post by moekid on Jun 9, 2019 19:26:13 GMT -7
Agree. The D was #5 or 9 last year and did its job all year. (PO not so much). It was the O that struggled to capitalize on the opportunities the D provided. O ranked in the teens I think or higher. To me, if the D rank stays the same and O rank goes up..the Bolts will go deep. We were #8 scoring D, #6 scoring O. Imagine that with such a woebegone group at OL |
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Post by moekid on Jun 9, 2019 19:27:55 GMT -7
Without reading the article, which I will at some point, I would answer the OP's question this way. The Bolts will go as far as the play of their OL goes. If that play, statistically speaking, is top 1/3 each week, they are certainly in the mix with just a few teams from the AFC. Middle third, they are dangerous, but do not get there. Bottom third, they might not get into the PO's.....
Over the course of the 2018 reg season, the Bolts OL were 10th in sacks allowed, 3rd in ypc passing, 7th in ypc rushing. They had two remarkably poor games vs Bal @ LAC & @ NE. Season over. Maintaining last year's avg would be fine if they can put a strong finish on it. If they can stay healthy they should finish in the top third again in actual team production. A strong late season/post season finish will be the key. I can see them building in their 2nd- 3rd years together.
PFF rating? Game science? Who knows? or cares? It's the W's baby!
Nothing to be ashamed of |
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Post by NoMoreChillies on Jun 10, 2019 0:15:13 GMT -7
After the recent years 2010-2017 I am happy to just make it to the playoffs. Once you're in the dance, any team can win
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Post by chargerfreak on Jun 10, 2019 2:04:49 GMT -7
I'm not sure it's a top half of the league OL when healthy, and the Chargers haven't exactly been known for their health over the last several seasons. I think if the OLine was as good (relative to the league) as any of our other position groups then I'd feel much better about our Superbowl chances. I think this also has a lot to do with the importance of OL overall. I think, behind QB, it's the most important position on the field. Games are won in the trenches, and recent studies have shown offensive line play is more consistent while defensive line play is more dependent on the strength of the opponent's offensive line. To twist Yogi Berra's axiom, good OL beats good DL not vice versa. Luckily, I think we have the perfect QB and WR group to make up for a weak offensive line. What part of what I said would you disagree with? They are not at the level when it comes to Xs and Os of the top staffs? I don't think they are in the top quarter of the league...Rams, Pats, Chiefs, Eagles, Saints, Niners, Colts, Bears. Some of those teams don't have the talent the Chargers do (especially at the QB position) but I think they are better at getting the matchups they want and getting people open. Let's move on to clock management. I think there has been some improvement here, but I wouldn't put it on the level of a lot of teams out there. And strategy, I think the team is still too conservative both in their play mix, and their game management. I also take a bit of issue with your comparison of Wiz to Bradley. I think there is a bit more talent on the defense this season, but last year I think the O was more talented. They lost Henry, but were largely healthy and had Rivers, Allen, Williams x 2, Ekeler. Defense was without Bosa for much of the season and by the end we didn't have a LB unit. Bradley figured out how to use his personnel early, moving Square and Philon outside and getting some pass rush from them. He also figured out how to deploy James in a diverse way from game 1. How well did having 2 RB sets with Gordon and Ekeler work for the Chargers? Pretty damn well. How often were they utilized? Rarely. I'm not saying any of these issues are disastrous, I think this team will make the playoffs and has a good chance of winning the division. But, I think the main competition for the Superbowl are superior to us in those areas (New England, KC, and Indy) and I think because of it we don't make the Superbowl. Isn't that the question the OP posed? think it has marginal talent, and most likely not enough talent to get to the Super Bowl. I would love to be surprised by them........ I think the coaching staff, and Wiz or Gus specifically, have the abilities to match up against anyone in the game. Yes, Belichick is awesome.....I know, but he loses games every year just like everyone else. The thing I do not like about the coaching staff is the propensity for being far too conservative. I hate it, fans hate it, and most importantly, the players hate it. It won't change under AL, and I do not think that style will get them to the Super Bowl, much less win it. They can't play recklessly, obviously, but they should have a good dose of unexpected each week. The Bolts have a very talented roster, one that can match up to any team in the league. Stay healthy, they have as good a chance as the teams you listed. If all stay healthy, Bolts' OL might be the difference between winning and golfing. Since they sucked and made it to the Divisional Round of the AFC, I sure hope they suck again this year !!
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Post by chargerfreak on Jun 10, 2019 5:35:23 GMT -7
They're all Hall of Famers ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Comment made facetiously. I have deleted my reply and I thank you for the clarification, sir.
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Post by totallybolted on Jun 10, 2019 7:28:06 GMT -7
Agree. The D was #5 or 9 last year and did its job all year. (PO not so much). It was the O that struggled to capitalize on the opportunities the D provided. O ranked in the teens I think or higher. To me, if the D rank stays the same and O rank goes up..the Bolts will go deep. We were #8 scoring D, #6 scoring O. Was talking about overall rank probably with yards/points givin up. Though that is muddied depending on how you set the priority. My point was I believe the Offense struggled more than the D did. Especially in those times where we needed to run out a clock. Granted 12-4 is pretty darn good and Seattle game they made a 4th qtr win out of it. and admittedly that overcame at theend to win 12. So I do think this team is really close.
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Post by frozendisc on Jun 10, 2019 8:07:56 GMT -7
The Bolts will go as far as the play from their OL takes them. Play well, go far.....play poorly, lose. I don't like the OL group in general, think it has marginal talent, and most likely not enough talent to get to the Super Bowl. I would love to be surprised by them........ I think the coaching staff, and Wiz or Gus specifically, have the abilities to match up against anyone in the game. Yes, Belichick is awesome.....I know, but he loses games every year just like everyone else. The thing I do not like about the coaching staff is the propensity for being far too conservative. I hate it, fans hate it, and most importantly, the players hate it. It won't change under AL, and I do not think that style will get them to the Super Bowl, much less win it. They can't play recklessly, obviously, but they should have a good dose of unexpected each week. The Bolts have a very talented roster, one that can match up to any team in the league. Stay healthy, they have as good a chance as the teams you listed. If all stay healthy, Bolts' OL might be the difference between winning and golfing. Since they sucked and made it to the Divisional Round of the AFC, I sure hope they suck again this year !! 12-4 seems a bit like overachieving to me. I know plenty hang their hats on that record, and justifiable so, as it is a very good record. I just do not trust it as much as all of you.
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Post by Chargeroo on Jun 10, 2019 8:15:06 GMT -7
Since they sucked and made it to the Divisional Round of the AFC, I sure hope they suck again this year !! It's easy to feel that way because so many games are close. It was easy to feel they were better than their record when they were having the losing records. That's the nature of the NFL.
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Post by frozendisc on Jun 10, 2019 8:37:35 GMT -7
12-4 seems a bit like overachieving to me. I know plenty hang their hats on that record, and justifiable so, as it is a very good record. I just do not trust it as much as all of you. It's easy to feel that way because so many games are close. It was easy to feel they were better than their record when they were having the losing records. That's the nature of the NFL. Absolutely......and I did think they were better than their record in those years. But as their talent move towards the top echelon of the NFL, weakness' become glaring and exploited. The OL group is the one big weakness on this roster in my view, and it is a big weakness that might well hold the team back. TT's only real failure I believe. He has tried.....but with little success.
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Post by Chargeroo on Jun 10, 2019 11:44:58 GMT -7
It's easy to feel that way because so many games are close. It was easy to feel they were better than their record when they were having the losing records. That's the nature of the NFL. Absolutely......and I did think they were better than their record in those years. But as their talent move towards the top echelon of the NFL, weakness' become glaring and exploited. The OL group is the one big weakness on this roster in my view, and it is a big weakness that might well hold the team back. TT's only real failure I believe. He has tried.....but with little success. But, what if? What if it turns out that Pipkins is already better than Tevi and Lamp turns out to be the great player we thought he would be when he was drafted? Isn't that something to dream about? A new and better right side of the line! I don't expect Pipkins to be that good but we never know. I do expect Lamp to step up big time.
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Post by frozendisc on Jun 10, 2019 12:54:02 GMT -7
Absolutely......and I did think they were better than their record in those years. But as their talent move towards the top echelon of the NFL, weakness' become glaring and exploited. The OL group is the one big weakness on this roster in my view, and it is a big weakness that might well hold the team back. TT's only real failure I believe. He has tried.....but with little success. But, what if? What if it turns out that Pipkins is already better than Tevi and Lamp turns out to be the great player we thought he would be when he was drafted? Isn't that something to dream about? A new and better right side of the line! I don't expect Pipkins to be that good but we never know. I do expect Lamp to step up big time.
Clearly that is the hope......and probably what it would take for the Bolts to make a Super Bowl appearance in 2020. I have more faith in Pipkins becoming something solid at the NFL level than I do Lamp, but time will tell. Could be both, or neither, or just one of them. OL is a big weakness currently.......
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