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Post by moekid on Sept 27, 2021 15:08:01 GMT -7
I'm just glad we took our bad red zone stats and shoved them down KC's throat. As I said, this would be a hell of a week to fix it. It was. I don’t want to deflate your morale but the chiefs defense had allowed 9 TDs in 9 redzone visits by opposing teams BEFORE they played the chargers, the chargers went 4/5 against them becoming the first team NOT to score a TD on them down there on the year. Translation, chargers worse redzone team in the NFL going into arrowhead played against the NFLs worse redzone defense. So the real test is still out there, redzone efficiency is still going to be a concern heading into next week but hopefully KC was a sign that things are improving. Something had to give in that battle if worsts. Glad we came out on top
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Post by joemcrugby on Sept 27, 2021 18:14:03 GMT -7
2020 Highlights (Johnson the first link, Guyton the second link)
I realize that Guyton dropped some passes that aren't shown (Tony Martin had the dropsies early on in his career), but I don't see a huge difference in production in 2020 between them. I guess the answer must be that the current Chargers and Jaguars coaching staffs can't properly evaluate Wide Receivers and the guy that can't get on the field for the Jaguars would have gone up & highpointed the catch ala Slayer and MDub as the safety collided with him in the end zone as the ball made contact with his hands.
I can say with relative certainty that the two $15 millionish WR's would have latched onto the ball, but IMO it's just a guess that Johnson would have done so. Regardless, Guyton needs to improve that aspect of his game as Martin did during the course of his career. He alligator-armed it in the Redskins game when contact was coming, so if you're going to take a big hit regardless you might as well do everything you can to latch onto the ball.
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Post by joemcrugby on Sept 27, 2021 18:45:43 GMT -7
Speaking of Adderley bringing the hammer, I truthfully didn’t know he had it in him. I likey!! 👏
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Post by fouts2herbert on Sept 28, 2021 2:59:17 GMT -7
I realize that Guyton dropped some passes that aren't shown (Tony Martin had the dropsies early on in his career), but I don't see a huge difference in production in 2020 between them. I guess the answer must be that the current Chargers and Jaguars coaching staffs can't properly evaluate Wide Receivers and the guy that can't get on the field for the Jaguars would have gone up & highpointed the catch ala Slayer and MDub as the safety collided with him in the end zone as the ball made contact with his hands. I can say with relative certainty that the two $15 millionish WR's would have latched onto the ball, but IMO it's just a guess that Johnson would have done so. Regardless, Guyton needs to improve that aspect of his game as Martin did during the course of his career. He alligator-armed it in the Redskins game when contact was coming, so if you're going to take a big hit regardless you might as well do everything you can to latch onto the ball. Here’s the follow up on the other thread in case you missed it:you need to watch the play again, but go back to the previous play when guyton drops the TD pass that hit him in both hands. Then watch in real time what he does after the play. His adjustment to the ball in the air was not good, it should’ve been a gimme. It’s kind of upsetting to see him brace for impact to the point where he gives up position and allows the ball to fall out of both of his hands instead of attacking the ball in the air which may have even resulted in a PI. He then had to get back some 60 yards to past mid field to where the huddle would be and he is shown like oblivious or stunned, walking nonchalantly down the sideline, putting his mouth piece on side of his helmet watching replay on jumbotron, dwelling on the dropped pass which further compounds the problematic sequence for him going into the illegal shift play. When the camera cuts back to the chargers, they’ve already broken huddle guyton was already on the left side but instead of getting set, he starts running towards the right side and runs into allen as allen was going in motion to the left. We then see allen raising his arms and yelling at him to come back to the left but guyton comes back slowly and is completely unaware of the clock. I think that is why we see allen visibly upset after his 30 yard conversion is called back. from allen’s POV, he’s probably thinking, first he drops the fqing TD pass, then he doesn’t get back in time to get the play, then when I tell him where to line up he has no idea that time is running out and that he needs to reset before the snap!!! I get that herbert has a lot on his plate, he’s reading the defense at that time and missed the fact that guyton was in la la land not knowing what the hell to do, but coach, coach should’ve called the time out, like when allen raises his arms in frustration pre snap. Or I would’ve liked to have seen keenan himself make an executive decision, he’s a vested veteran! what’s staley going to do bench allen for using a meaningless time out? SOMEONE should’ve called a time out to give guyton a chance to pull his head out of his ass! I’m not a guyton hater, I liked both guyton and tyron johnson and don’t need to pick one over the other (false choice) both have a future in the NFL. But guyton had a very rough sequence there that cost the team a touchdown and then cost the team a 30 yard gain to extend the drive and potentially add more points before the half ended. At the very least the team runs the clock out and keeps KC from scoring before the end of the first half. The Chargers should’ve gone into the half up 21-0 or 17-0 or 21-3 or 14-0 or maybe even 21-7 but instead we got almost worse case scenario of 14-3 because worse case could’ve been 14-7. so you go from a situation where the team should’ve extended their lead before halftime and instead the chiefs get to cut into the lead and guyton was partly responsible for that ultimately it’s herbert’s job to make sure everyone is set and make sure everyone is line up properly, herbert had to redirect both allen and guyton on that play. If he was more experienced he’d have called a timeout instead of trying to beat the clock and guyton should’ve hurried up if he had a clue about the time, it’s a young group and they clearly lack experience. EDIT: At the very top of the screen you see staley trying to call TO right as the ball is being snapped, I don’t know if the ref ignored him or if the ref thought he was too late. Either way herbert should’ve called it long before that with 4-5 seconds before the play clock expired because both guyton and allen were confused pre snap but allen managed to reset and guyton had no idea what was happening time wise. Very frustrating sequence and plenty of blame to go around but totally doesn’t happen if guyton just catches the ball on the previous play OR if he lines up correctly OR if he runs fast to get set instead of jogging in front of herbert twice.
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Post by fouts2herbert on Sept 28, 2021 3:38:52 GMT -7
During the off season I wrote that the chargers are like the T-rex in the chief’s rear view mirror like in the jurrasic park movie. Object/chargers are definitely much closer than the chiefs thought BTW, the signing of josh gordon the day after they got beat at home by the chargers seems like an act of desperation.
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Post by chargerfreak on Sept 28, 2021 5:16:58 GMT -7
Speaking of Adderley bringing the hammer, I truthfully didn’t know he had it in him. I likey!! 👏 Oh he was laying some shit down on that field Sunday. It was great. Make those bastards think twice about coming over the middle of the field at us. I'm sure that's what Staley told him.
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Post by chargerfreak on Sept 28, 2021 5:19:12 GMT -7
2020 Highlights (Johnson the first link, Guyton the second link)I realize that Guyton dropped some passes that aren't shown (Tony Martin had the dropsies early on in his career), but I don't see a huge difference in production in 2020 between them. I guess the answer must be that the current Chargers and Jaguars coaching staffs can't properly evaluate Wide Receivers and the guy that can't get on the field for the Jaguars would have gone up & highpointed the catch ala Slayer and MDub as the safety collided with him in the end zone as the ball made contact with his hands. I can say with relative certainty that the two $15 millionish WR's would have latched onto the ball, but IMO it's just a guess that Johnson would have done so. Regardless, Guyton needs to improve that aspect of his game as Martin did during the course of his career. He alligator-armed it in the Redskins game when contact was coming, so if you're going to take a big hit regardless you might as well do everything you can to latch onto the ball. Its been multiple years of this crap, that's my problem with it. We are cranking, and he is a liability. I don't want it to be that way, it just is. I don't want to be stupid, but I wonder if he has small hands or something. I mean something is up...........
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Post by afboltfan on Sept 28, 2021 9:07:25 GMT -7
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Post by ohioboltfan on Sept 28, 2021 14:51:21 GMT -7
When I first saw Gordon to the Chiefs I thought it was a good move for both. I truly think Josh Gordon in his prime- before he snorted away his football career- was one of the best WRs ever. He had over 1,600 yard with Brandon Weeden as his QB on a Browns team that had nobody except him for defenses to focus on. Such a shame. In his previous comebacks he hasn't fared so well, so there's no reason to think differently this time around. Such a shame though.
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Post by fouts2herbert on Sept 28, 2021 14:56:17 GMT -7
When I first saw Gordon to the Chiefs I thought it was a good move for both. I truly think Josh Gordon in his prime- before he snorted away his football career- was one of the best WRs ever. He had over 1,600 yard with Brandon Weeden as his QB on a Browns team that had nobody except him for defenses to focus on. Such a shame. In his previous comebacks he hasn't fared so well, so there's no reason to think differently this time around. Such a shame though. IF he can stay clean, KC is the perfect fit for him, he wouldn’t have to carry and he comes into a great culture and team. As much as I hate to say this, I’m rooting for the guy as someone who’s dealt with issues of addiction in my own life, I hope he gets it squared away once and for all.
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Post by joemcrugby on Sept 28, 2021 15:36:53 GMT -7
I realize that Guyton dropped some passes that aren't shown (Tony Martin had the dropsies early on in his career), but I don't see a huge difference in production in 2020 between them. I guess the answer must be that the current Chargers and Jaguars coaching staffs can't properly evaluate Wide Receivers and the guy that can't get on the field for the Jaguars would have gone up & highpointed the catch ala Slayer and MDub as the safety collided with him in the end zone as the ball made contact with his hands. I can say with relative certainty that the two $15 millionish WR's would have latched onto the ball, but IMO it's just a guess that Johnson would have done so. Regardless, Guyton needs to improve that aspect of his game as Martin did during the course of his career. He alligator-armed it in the Redskins game when contact was coming, so if you're going to take a big hit regardless you might as well do everything you can to latch onto the ball. Here’s the follow up on the other thread in case you missed it:you need to watch the play again, but go back to the previous play when guyton drops the TD pass that hit him in both hands. Then watch in real time what he does after the play. His adjustment to the ball in the air was not good, it should’ve been a gimme. It’s kind of upsetting to see him brace for impact to the point where he gives up position and allows the ball to fall out of both of his hands instead of attacking the ball in the air which may have even resulted in a PI. He then had to get back some 60 yards to past mid field to where the huddle would be and he is shown like oblivious or stunned, walking nonchalantly down the sideline, putting his mouth piece on side of his helmet watching replay on jumbotron, dwelling on the dropped pass which further compounds the problematic sequence for him going into the illegal shift play. When the camera cuts back to the chargers, they’ve already broken huddle guyton was already on the left side but instead of getting set, he starts running towards the right side and runs into allen as allen was going in motion to the left. We then see allen raising his arms and yelling at him to come back to the left but guyton comes back slowly and is completely unaware of the clock. I think that is why we see allen visibly upset after his 30 yard conversion is called back. from allen’s POV, he’s probably thinking, first he drops the fqing TD pass, then he doesn’t get back in time to get the play, then when I tell him where to line up he has no idea that time is running out and that he needs to reset before the snap!!! I get that herbert has a lot on his plate, he’s reading the defense at that time and missed the fact that guyton was in la la land not knowing what the hell to do, but coach, coach should’ve called the time out, like when allen raises his arms in frustration pre snap. Or I would’ve liked to have seen keenan himself make an executive decision, he’s a vested veteran! what’s staley going to do bench allen for using a meaningless time out? SOMEONE should’ve called a time out to give guyton a chance to pull his head out of his ass! I’m not a guyton hater, I liked both guyton and tyron johnson and don’t need to pick one over the other (false choice) both have a future in the NFL. But guyton had a very rough sequence there that cost the team a touchdown and then cost the team a 30 yard gain to extend the drive and potentially add more points before the half ended. At the very least the team runs the clock out and keeps KC from scoring before the end of the first half. The Chargers should’ve gone into the half up 21-0 or 17-0 or 21-3 or 14-0 or maybe even 21-7 but instead we got almost worse case scenario of 14-3 because worse case could’ve been 14-7. so you go from a situation where the team should’ve extended their lead before halftime and instead the chiefs get to cut into the lead and guyton was partly responsible for that ultimately it’s herbert’s job to make sure everyone is set and make sure everyone is line up properly, herbert had to redirect both allen and guyton on that play. If he was more experienced he’d have called a timeout instead of trying to beat the clock and guyton should’ve hurried up if he had a clue about the time, it’s a young group and they clearly lack experience. EDIT: At the very top of the screen you see staley trying to call TO right as the ball is being snapped, I don’t know if the ref ignored him or if the ref thought he was too late. Either way herbert should’ve called it long before that with 4-5 seconds before the play clock expired because both guyton and allen were confused pre snap but allen managed to reset and guyton had no idea what was happening time wise. Very frustrating sequence and plenty of blame to go around but totally doesn’t happen if guyton just catches the ball on the previous play OR if he lines up correctly OR if he runs fast to get set instead of jogging in front of herbert twice. I’ll be able to take another look at the game Thursday evening, but I’ll trust you on your observation. If the coaches are truly teachers as they proclaim, then mentally messing up because you’re still reliving the previous play where you couldn’t pull in a difficult, contested but very catchable long pass needs to be addressed immediately. If that lesson isn’t learned, the bench is the next lesson.
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Post by joemcrugby on Sept 28, 2021 17:19:22 GMT -7
Ek miked up!
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Post by moekid on Sept 28, 2021 17:37:56 GMT -7
Here’s the follow up on the other thread in case you missed it:you need to watch the play again, but go back to the previous play when guyton drops the TD pass that hit him in both hands. Then watch in real time what he does after the play. His adjustment to the ball in the air was not good, it should’ve been a gimme. It’s kind of upsetting to see him brace for impact to the point where he gives up position and allows the ball to fall out of both of his hands instead of attacking the ball in the air which may have even resulted in a PI. He then had to get back some 60 yards to past mid field to where the huddle would be and he is shown like oblivious or stunned, walking nonchalantly down the sideline, putting his mouth piece on side of his helmet watching replay on jumbotron, dwelling on the dropped pass which further compounds the problematic sequence for him going into the illegal shift play. When the camera cuts back to the chargers, they’ve already broken huddle guyton was already on the left side but instead of getting set, he starts running towards the right side and runs into allen as allen was going in motion to the left. We then see allen raising his arms and yelling at him to come back to the left but guyton comes back slowly and is completely unaware of the clock. I think that is why we see allen visibly upset after his 30 yard conversion is called back. from allen’s POV, he’s probably thinking, first he drops the fqing TD pass, then he doesn’t get back in time to get the play, then when I tell him where to line up he has no idea that time is running out and that he needs to reset before the snap!!! I get that herbert has a lot on his plate, he’s reading the defense at that time and missed the fact that guyton was in la la land not knowing what the hell to do, but coach, coach should’ve called the time out, like when allen raises his arms in frustration pre snap. Or I would’ve liked to have seen keenan himself make an executive decision, he’s a vested veteran! what’s staley going to do bench allen for using a meaningless time out? SOMEONE should’ve called a time out to give guyton a chance to pull his head out of his ass! I’m not a guyton hater, I liked both guyton and tyron johnson and don’t need to pick one over the other (false choice) both have a future in the NFL. But guyton had a very rough sequence there that cost the team a touchdown and then cost the team a 30 yard gain to extend the drive and potentially add more points before the half ended. At the very least the team runs the clock out and keeps KC from scoring before the end of the first half. The Chargers should’ve gone into the half up 21-0 or 17-0 or 21-3 or 14-0 or maybe even 21-7 but instead we got almost worse case scenario of 14-3 because worse case could’ve been 14-7. so you go from a situation where the team should’ve extended their lead before halftime and instead the chiefs get to cut into the lead and guyton was partly responsible for that ultimately it’s herbert’s job to make sure everyone is set and make sure everyone is line up properly, herbert had to redirect both allen and guyton on that play. If he was more experienced he’d have called a timeout instead of trying to beat the clock and guyton should’ve hurried up if he had a clue about the time, it’s a young group and they clearly lack experience. EDIT: At the very top of the screen you see staley trying to call TO right as the ball is being snapped, I don’t know if the ref ignored him or if the ref thought he was too late. Either way herbert should’ve called it long before that with 4-5 seconds before the play clock expired because both guyton and allen were confused pre snap but allen managed to reset and guyton had no idea what was happening time wise. Very frustrating sequence and plenty of blame to go around but totally doesn’t happen if guyton just catches the ball on the previous play OR if he lines up correctly OR if he runs fast to get set instead of jogging in front of herbert twice. I’ll be able to take another look at the game Thursday evening, but I’ll trust you on your observation. If the coaches are truly teachers as they proclaim, then mentally messing up because you’re still reliving the previous play where you couldn’t pull in a difficult, contested but very catchable long pass needs to be addressed immediately. If that lesson isn’t learned, the bench is the next lesson. It was only a difficult contested catch because Guyton misplayed it
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Post by fouts2herbert on Sept 28, 2021 20:00:20 GMT -7
Here’s the follow up on the other thread in case you missed it:you need to watch the play again, but go back to the previous play when guyton drops the TD pass that hit him in both hands. Then watch in real time what he does after the play. His adjustment to the ball in the air was not good, it should’ve been a gimme. It’s kind of upsetting to see him brace for impact to the point where he gives up position and allows the ball to fall out of both of his hands instead of attacking the ball in the air which may have even resulted in a PI. He then had to get back some 60 yards to past mid field to where the huddle would be and he is shown like oblivious or stunned, walking nonchalantly down the sideline, putting his mouth piece on side of his helmet watching replay on jumbotron, dwelling on the dropped pass which further compounds the problematic sequence for him going into the illegal shift play. When the camera cuts back to the chargers, they’ve already broken huddle guyton was already on the left side but instead of getting set, he starts running towards the right side and runs into allen as allen was going in motion to the left. We then see allen raising his arms and yelling at him to come back to the left but guyton comes back slowly and is completely unaware of the clock. I think that is why we see allen visibly upset after his 30 yard conversion is called back. from allen’s POV, he’s probably thinking, first he drops the fqing TD pass, then he doesn’t get back in time to get the play, then when I tell him where to line up he has no idea that time is running out and that he needs to reset before the snap!!! I get that herbert has a lot on his plate, he’s reading the defense at that time and missed the fact that guyton was in la la land not knowing what the hell to do, but coach, coach should’ve called the time out, like when allen raises his arms in frustration pre snap. Or I would’ve liked to have seen keenan himself make an executive decision, he’s a vested veteran! what’s staley going to do bench allen for using a meaningless time out? SOMEONE should’ve called a time out to give guyton a chance to pull his head out of his ass! I’m not a guyton hater, I liked both guyton and tyron johnson and don’t need to pick one over the other (false choice) both have a future in the NFL. But guyton had a very rough sequence there that cost the team a touchdown and then cost the team a 30 yard gain to extend the drive and potentially add more points before the half ended. At the very least the team runs the clock out and keeps KC from scoring before the end of the first half. The Chargers should’ve gone into the half up 21-0 or 17-0 or 21-3 or 14-0 or maybe even 21-7 but instead we got almost worse case scenario of 14-3 because worse case could’ve been 14-7. so you go from a situation where the team should’ve extended their lead before halftime and instead the chiefs get to cut into the lead and guyton was partly responsible for that ultimately it’s herbert’s job to make sure everyone is set and make sure everyone is line up properly, herbert had to redirect both allen and guyton on that play. If he was more experienced he’d have called a timeout instead of trying to beat the clock and guyton should’ve hurried up if he had a clue about the time, it’s a young group and they clearly lack experience. EDIT: At the very top of the screen you see staley trying to call TO right as the ball is being snapped, I don’t know if the ref ignored him or if the ref thought he was too late. Either way herbert should’ve called it long before that with 4-5 seconds before the play clock expired because both guyton and allen were confused pre snap but allen managed to reset and guyton had no idea what was happening time wise. Very frustrating sequence and plenty of blame to go around but totally doesn’t happen if guyton just catches the ball on the previous play OR if he lines up correctly OR if he runs fast to get set instead of jogging in front of herbert twice. I’ll be able to take another look at the game Thursday evening, but I’ll trust you on your observation. If the coaches are truly teachers as they proclaim, then mentally messing up because you’re still reliving the previous play where you couldn’t pull in a difficult, contested but very catchable long pass needs to be addressed immediately. If that lesson isn’t learned, the bench is the next lesson.Well, I hate to say this because it’s too early in the year to say stuff like this, BUT, we do have palmer sitting right there, just saying. If guyton has to go back to being the speed specialist #4 WR then maybe that’s just what has to happen
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Post by fouts2herbert on Sept 28, 2021 20:06:45 GMT -7
I’ll be able to take another look at the game Thursday evening, but I’ll trust you on your observation. If the coaches are truly teachers as they proclaim, then mentally messing up because you’re still reliving the previous play where you couldn’t pull in a difficult, contested but very catchable long pass needs to be addressed immediately. If that lesson isn’t learned, the bench is the next lesson. It was only a difficult contested catch because Guyton misplayed it His adjustment to the ball was atrocious, if he doesn’t stop and scrunch up to receive impact he could have curled in to his left and #49 would’ve missed him entirely by half a yard while he himself would’ve been lined up correctly with the ball. His receiver instincts and hand use during the catch really call in to question what his overall potential will be. I’ve seen guys improve in those departments before but he’s in year what, 3 or 4? You’d like to see him be further along by now. I’m not saying he’s a coward, but he doesn’t seem to have that dawg in him. He doesn’t fight for balls
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