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Post by chargerfreak on Dec 15, 2021 14:13:55 GMT -7
So what you are saying is the 'system' has become so good, it is quite rare that a top talent is missed, making drafting so simple..... Seems like every year some guy from the 5th round becomes a star...... Here is my perspective, and I realize it is polar opposite of yours and some others on here: In the big picture, its not about the one 5th rounder that becomes a star. It's about the 31 others that did not. You people have no idea how great this post is. I absolutely should be paid to post on here. It is so good, so deep, I am hesitant to reply to any follow up questions, that really shouldn't be happening anyway. I mean, if you beg me, I will probably reply. So great, so misunderstood.
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Post by lazylightning on Dec 15, 2021 15:29:01 GMT -7
Here is my perspective, and I realize it is polar opposite of yours and some others on here: In the big picture, its not about the one 5th rounder that becomes a star. It's about the 31 others that did not. You people have no idea how great this post is. I absolutely should be paid to post on here. It is so good, so deep, I am hesitant to reply to any follow up questions, that really shouldn't be happening anyway. I mean, if you beg me, I will probably reply. So great, so misunderstood. Does Freak seem to think we all suffer from survivorship bias?
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Post by joemcrugby on Dec 15, 2021 15:44:32 GMT -7
A big reason why Beathard is in the HOF is 25+ years of scouring historically black schools and other small colleges around the south and unearthing undiscovered gems who turned in stellar NFL careers. Once the combine started, those gems were no longer undiscovered, but Beathard kept trying to unearth the gems that were no longer there for the taking. That and he whose name must not be spoken. Yes, he got too clever at the end, but he had one hell of a quarter-century run! So what you are saying is the 'system' has become so good, it is quite rare that a top talent is missed, making drafting so simple..... Seems like every year some guy from the 5th round becomes a star...... No, what I’m saying is that the Ekelers who come out of nowhere became so rare after the start of the combine that Beathard’s talent searches turned into fool’s gold. Beathard made his career with guys like Darrell Green from Texas A&I. Once the combine started, guys like Green got invited to the combine, and everyone saw them up close and personal. If you wanted to see Green back at the start of the 1980’s, you needed to take a special trip to the metropolis of Kingsville, Texas which is in the middle of nowhere. Beathard and his scouting staffs made their bones by scouring the Kingsvilles of the United States. At the end of his career, he kept trading next year’s 1st round picks for the current draft 2nd round pick - a tactic that worked great when he built 3 Super Bowl winners in DC and when he did it to pick Natrone Means in the early 90’s - but the tactic failed time and time again after the combine went into effect. |
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Post by afboltfan on Dec 15, 2021 16:41:50 GMT -7
Its no coincidence teams aggressive in free agency typically go farther in the playoffs...
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Post by joemcrugby on Dec 15, 2021 17:03:33 GMT -7
Its no coincidence teams aggressive in free agency typically go farther in the playoffs... The Patriots haven’t been “aggressive” in free agency. They target not the biggest names or contracts, but rather target individuals who will fit into the team structure. There have been a few exceptions, but they mostly lose more “names” than they acquire. |
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Post by frozendisc on Dec 15, 2021 18:04:29 GMT -7
So what you are saying is the 'system' has become so good, it is quite rare that a top talent is missed, making drafting so simple..... Seems like every year some guy from the 5th round becomes a star...... No, what I’m saying is that the Ekelers who come out of nowhere became so rare after the start of the combine that Beathard’s talent searches turned into fool’s gold. Beathard made his career with guys like Darrell Green from Texas A&I. Once the combine started, guys like Green got invited to the combine, and everyone saw them up close and personal. If you wanted to see Green back at the start of the 1980’s, you needed to take a special trip to the metropolis of Kingsville, Texas which is in the middle of nowhere. Beathard and his scouting staffs made their bones by scouring the Kingsvilles of the United States. At the end of his career, he kept trading next year’s 1st round picks for the current draft 2nd round pick - a tactic that worked great when he built 3 Super Bowl winners in DC and when he did it to pick Natrone Means in the early 90’s - but the tactic failed time and time again after the combine went into effect. I know what you are saying.....Beathard took advantage of the lack of a system.....when the system was developed, Beathard was in trouble. But my point is there is a system, a well developed one, so drafting should be easy and productive.....yet it is far from.
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Post by frozendisc on Dec 15, 2021 18:06:46 GMT -7
No organization stays hot forever.....there is always ebb and flow..... TT has done a very good job as GM.How so? 68/73 record and 2 divisional PO losses... You already know I beg to differ. You clearly are basing your evaluation off of two aspects.....there are many many more.....TT is not getting fired.
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Post by afboltfan on Dec 15, 2021 18:07:07 GMT -7
Its no coincidence teams aggressive in free agency typically go farther in the playoffs... The Patriots haven’t been “aggressive” in free agency. They target not the biggest names or contracts, but rather target individuals who will fit into the team structure. There have been a few exceptions, but they mostly lose more “names” than they acquire. I'd argue the only constant is Tom Brady and Belicheat who are the best in the NFL at their job. We'll see how far the Pats go this year as they were extremely aggressive in free agency. Which is def out of the norm for them like you said.
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Post by afboltfan on Dec 15, 2021 18:09:26 GMT -7
How so? 68/73 record and 2 divisional PO losses... You already know I beg to differ. You clearly are basing your evaluation off of two aspects.....there are many many more.....TT is not getting fired. At least the 2 aspects I point out are extremely important and is the main factor when judging anyone in the NFL. You still haven't told me why he is so great... I respect your opinion but I don't think your reasons will be that impressive.
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Post by frozendisc on Dec 15, 2021 18:09:58 GMT -7
So what you are saying is the 'system' has become so good, it is quite rare that a top talent is missed, making drafting so simple..... Seems like every year some guy from the 5th round becomes a star...... Here is my perspective, and I realize it is polar opposite of yours and some others on here: In the big picture, its not about the one 5th rounder that becomes a star. It's about the 31 others that did not. What crap...... James, KA, Bosa.....all stars.....all losers. Give me a group of talented unheralded players......watch us win a championship.
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Post by frozendisc on Dec 15, 2021 18:13:04 GMT -7
You clearly are basing your evaluation off of two aspects.....there are many many more.....TT is not getting fired. At least the 2 aspects I point out are extremely important and is the main factor when judging anyone in the NFL. You still haven't told me why he is so great... I respect your opinion but I don't think your reasons will be that impressive. Winning is far from a singular aspect of the GM......many things impact the ability to win, being lucky first a foremost. TT runs a solid program.....from budget, to keeping a clean image for the brand.....TT is stability, and owners love that.
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Post by joemcrugby on Dec 15, 2021 18:57:54 GMT -7
The Patriots haven’t been “aggressive” in free agency. They target not the biggest names or contracts, but rather target individuals who will fit into the team structure. There have been a few exceptions, but they mostly lose more “names” than they acquire. I'd argue the only constant is Tom Brady and Belicheat who are the best in the NFL at their job. We'll see how far the Pats go this year as they were extremely aggressive in free agency. Which is def out of the norm for them like you said. Who were the “big name” free agents the Patriots signed this year? Judon and Hunter Henry were probably the biggest “name”, with Judon having his best season in 2021 after never recording double digit sacks in his prior six seasons with the Ravens. Otherwise, they were typical pieces to the puzzle. _____ Free agents the Patriots signed from another team: Jonnu Smith, tight end (Titans) Matthew Judon, linebacker (Ravens) Davon Godchaux, defensive tackle (Dolphins) Jalen Mills, defensive back (Eagles) Hunter Henry, tight end (Chargers) Kendrick Bourne, wide receiver (49ers) Nelson Agholor, wide receiver (Raiders) Ted Karras, offensive lineman (Dolphins) Raekwon McMillan, linebacker (Raiders) Montravius Adams, defensive tackle (Packers) LaRoy Reynolds, linebacker (Falcons) Alex Redmond, guard (Bengals) S Adrian Colbert (Giants) |
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Post by afboltfan on Dec 15, 2021 19:36:05 GMT -7
I'd argue the only constant is Tom Brady and Belicheat who are the best in the NFL at their job. We'll see how far the Pats go this year as they were extremely aggressive in free agency. Which is def out of the norm for them like you said. Who were the “big name” free agents the Patriots signed this year? Judon and Hunter Henry were probably the biggest “name”, with Judon having his best season in 2021 after never recording double digit sacks in his prior six seasons with the Ravens. Otherwise, they were typical pieces to the puzzle. _____ Free agents the Patriots signed from another team: Jonnu Smith, tight end (Titans) Matthew Judon, linebacker (Ravens) Davon Godchaux, defensive tackle (Dolphins) Jalen Mills, defensive back (Eagles) Hunter Henry, tight end (Chargers) Kendrick Bourne, wide receiver (49ers) Nelson Agholor, wide receiver (Raiders) Ted Karras, offensive lineman (Dolphins) Raekwon McMillan, linebacker (Raiders) Montravius Adams, defensive tackle (Packers) LaRoy Reynolds, linebacker (Falcons) Alex Redmond, guard (Bengals) S Adrian Colbert (Giants) Why do the goal posts (pun intended) always have to move? Nobody is talking about "big names" every single one of those 13 players is a contributor and the Pats are right back on top of their division and the #1 seed in the AFC (for now)...
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Post by joemcrugby on Dec 15, 2021 20:19:27 GMT -7
Who were the “big name” free agents the Patriots signed this year? Judon and Hunter Henry were probably the biggest “name”, with Judon having his best season in 2021 after never recording double digit sacks in his prior six seasons with the Ravens. Otherwise, they were typical pieces to the puzzle. _____ Free agents the Patriots signed from another team: Jonnu Smith, tight end (Titans) Matthew Judon, linebacker (Ravens) Davon Godchaux, defensive tackle (Dolphins) Jalen Mills, defensive back (Eagles) Hunter Henry, tight end (Chargers) Kendrick Bourne, wide receiver (49ers) Nelson Agholor, wide receiver (Raiders) Ted Karras, offensive lineman (Dolphins) Raekwon McMillan, linebacker (Raiders) Montravius Adams, defensive tackle (Packers) LaRoy Reynolds, linebacker (Falcons) Alex Redmond, guard (Bengals) S Adrian Colbert (Giants) Why do the goal posts (pun intended) always have to move? Nobody is talking about "big names" every single one of those 13 players is a contributor and the Pats are right back on top of their division and the #1 seed in the AFC (for now)... The Chargers went in on free agency at almost the same aggressiveness and amount of $$$ spent as the Patriots did this past offseason. The goalposts aren’t moving given that we are discussing “Coupon Tom” as in he is cheap and he isn’t as aggressive as other teams like the Patriots. They always spend about as much as teams like the Patriots do. So it’s not a matter of “Coupon Tom” in my opinion - it’s a matter of choosing wisely, and few teams have chosen as wisely as the Patriots do year after year. If it’s being argued that Telesco has not been very successful in free agency, then I am in full agreement. If it’s being argued that the Chargers organization is cheap and has no aggressiveness in free agency, then I do not agree. |
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Post by afboltfan on Dec 15, 2021 20:23:49 GMT -7
Why do the goal posts (pun intended) always have to move? Nobody is talking about "big names" every single one of those 13 players is a contributor and the Pats are right back on top of their division and the #1 seed in the AFC (for now)... Hell, the Chargers went in on free agency almost the same amount spent as the Patriots. The goalposts aren’t moving given that we are discussing “Coupon Tom” after all in that he isn’t as aggressive as the Patriots. They always spend about as much as teams like the Patriots do. So it’s not a matter of “Coupon Tom” in my opinion - it’s a matter of choosing wisely, and few teams have chosen as wisely as the Patriots do year after year. If it’s being argued that Telesco has not been very successful in free agency, then I am in full agreement. If it’s being argued that the Chargers organization is cheap and has no aggressiveness in free agency, then I do not agree. Then we are in agreement. Hence my stance that TT is an average GM that will likely never get us a Superbowl caliber team.
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