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Post by frozendisc on Apr 14, 2019 8:58:35 GMT -7
Flippant? That's only if you think the owners or the person with the choice are ignorant of the talent and rankings. They are not just going to pull a name out of their arse. To me it would more about the GM's style. I figure most make all the calls. But I can surely see one tell his DC "These three defensive players are the ones I like, you make the call." Owners do not spend enough time studying the players available to have the knowledge required, and I have never experienced that. I believe any GM that did that would undercut his value in the owners eye. The owner is paying for that expertise, and abdicating it at such a crucial time would seem unwise. GM's having an OC or DC in on the decision, even to the point of letting one decide on which player between two options, is not far fetched. That said, I believe it is more probable that the GM is making the decision, as OC/DC's have a much more narrow area of responsibility....which is win now.
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Post by joemcrugby on Apr 14, 2019 13:38:44 GMT -7
Chargers draft analysis: Linebackers already upgraded if injury bug doesn't hit againBy JEFF MILLER APR 14, 2019 As the Chargers prepare for the NFL draft, The Times will examine their roster.
Part 1 of 8: Linebackers.
There was no position where the Chargers were hit harder by injury in 2018 than linebacker, starters Denzel Perryman, Jatavis Brown and Kyzir White all lost along the way. The situation reached a desperate point where, in the playoffs, the team was forced to rely on an alignment that employed seven defensive backs. That ploy worked well against elusive quarterback Lamar Jackson and Baltimore, but not so well against Hall of Fame-bound Tom Brady and the more bruising New England Patriots’ offense. Perryman, Brown and White are all projected to return in 2019, Perryman in March signing a two-year extension worth up to $12 million. The Chargers also signed veteran Thomas Davis to a two-year contract worth up to $10.5 million on the third day of free agency. Davis, 36, had spent his entire career with Carolina. Uchenna Nwosu and White, both entering their second seasons, will be expected to make noticeable steps forward, although White was limited to three games a year ago. The Chargers do like the long-term potential of both. Even when more healthy than they were in 2018, the Chargers have not hesitated to go smaller and quicker on defense, a situation made possible these days because of the versatility of safeties Derwin James and Adrian Phillips. Coach Anthony Lynn already has said he plans to continue to play schemes heavy on defensive backs. “We’ve done it in the past,” he said. “We just didn’t live in it. It’s something you can go in and out of versus certain personnel groups. We’ll still do that.” The Chargers did lose former starting linebacker Kyle Emanuel, who opted to retire after four seasons citing concerns about his long-term health. Under contract for 2019: Denzel Perryman ($3.475 million), Thomas Davis ($3.25 million), Jatavis Brown ($2,071,096), Nick Dzubnar ($1,922,500), Uchenna Nwosu ($1,308,995), Kyzir White ($733,610), Tre’Von Johnson ($570,000), Kyle Wilson ($570,000). Free agents: Limited cap space has prevented the Chargers from being among the more aggressive teams this offseason. The most notable money they’ve spent to bring in new players involved Davis and backup quarterback Tyrod Taylor. So they have invested at linebacker, particularly when adding in the extension for Perryman. Draft: At their local pro day last week, the Chargers had the opportunity to work out Cameron Smith, who had a stellar career at USC. Smith afterward said he’d be honored to play for the team and projected himself as someone who could eventually emerge as a signal-caller for an NFL defense. Linebacker depth is one area the Chargers could target early in the draft. Roster decisions: In a perfect world, the Chargers will have better linebacker health in 2019 and be able use a multi-player rotation depending on down-and-distance. But linebacker was far from a perfect world last season. Bringing back Perryman was a priority, but he’ll have to prove he can stay on the field. He has been limited to 16 games over the past two seasons combined. NEXT: Defensive line. www.latimes.com/sports/chargers/la-sp-chargers-nfl-draft-linebackers-20190413-story.html
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Post by totallybolted on Apr 14, 2019 17:14:40 GMT -7
I think the bolts are close on D. Really just a DT away from being brutal. Depth at LB would be key.
On O, you have to look at OL as the biggest weakness imo. Too many questions. After that I'd look at a pass catching TE or bigger down hill pounder at RB to spell Gordon.
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Post by NoMoreChillies on Apr 14, 2019 18:47:01 GMT -7
Agree TB
the right DT will free up so many playmakers to....make big plays.
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 14, 2019 19:47:02 GMT -7
I think the bolts are close on D. Really just a DT away from being brutal. Depth at LB would be key. On O, you have to look at OL as the biggest weakness imo. Too many questions. After that I'd look at a pass catching TE or bigger down hill pounder at RB to spell Gordon. DT is probably the most needed, but Safety is needed as well. OL is a hot mess, throw in a season ending injury to Okung or Pouncy, and it really gets ugly. TT needs to use some draft picks on OL.......
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Post by totallybolted on Apr 14, 2019 20:11:22 GMT -7
To me the need for a safety drops if the DL is good. It all starts up front. get that first line of D solid and everyone elses job is easier. KC is a prime example. their front 4 of no names were good. With out them KC would of given up even more points.
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 14, 2019 20:22:56 GMT -7
TT isn't drafting a safety......they like who they have, will see how it goes.
DT is the need.....and TT will draft one.
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Post by swand on Apr 14, 2019 21:44:41 GMT -7
What do you guys think of Dalton Risner? I think I've settled on him as my personal favorite of guys that I think are likely to realistically be there at pick 28. I just like his reported toughness, smarts, and the fact that he could slide inside if needed.
Basically I feel like either the guards will be fine this year or Tevi will be fine, but it might be asking a bit much to assume both of those to pan out. So to grab a guy with Risner's quality that has the flexibility to play either RT or guard is very appealing to me.
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 15, 2019 2:41:00 GMT -7
The Draft Geeks are here for my amusement. You guys get so wrapped up tight on your "Big Board calculus crossover double check blah blah." I laugh so hard. I have heard stories over and over and over again of GM's saying "Ok. Owner Pete, this pick is all yours. No debate, no talky, its wide open for your selection." "DC, the first 3 picks were offense, the 4th round is all up to you. Anyone you want." "Ok guys, I want the 5th round. No conversation and forget the list," Etc etc etc. I am amused. I love it. Goes on all the time. Dominant post of destruction by the King of Draft Geeks. A flippant approach to drafting is probably not the wisest system to employ for an organization, but I am certain some do just the same. Successful organizations do not employ such a laissez faire attitude to things so important, as their success is based in doing all things as correctly as possible at every moment. * Your post is dominant in only the delusion it portrays. Its a fact not delusional. Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make it a delusion.
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 15, 2019 2:44:57 GMT -7
Flippant? That's only if you think the owners or the person with the choice are ignorant of the talent and rankings. They are not just going to pull a name out of their arse. To me it would more about the GM's style. I figure most make all the calls. But I can surely see one tell his DC "These three defensive players are the ones I like, you make the call." GM's having an OC or DC in on the decision, even to the point of letting one decide on which player between two options, is not far fetched. That said, I believe it is more probable that the GM is making the decision, as OC/DC's have a much more narrow area of responsibility....which is win now. I can think of 3 owners straight off the top of my head. You tried to spin it with "successful teams don't do this". Wrong again. Jerry Jones, Al Davis, and Rooney. Oakland in their glory days, Dallas, and Pittsburgh. They probably have 12-13 SB's between them.
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Post by joemcrugby on Apr 15, 2019 4:23:57 GMT -7
Owners do not spend enough time studying the players available to have the knowledge required, and I have never experienced that. I believe any GM that did that would undercut his value in the owners eye. The owner is paying for that expertise, and abdicating it at such a crucial time would seem unwise. GM's having an OC or DC in on the decision, even to the point of letting one decide on which player between two options, is not far fetched. That said, I believe it is more probable that the GM is making the decision, as OC/DC's have a much more narrow area of responsibility....which is win now. I can think of 3 owners straight off the top of my head. You tried to spin it with "successful teams don't do this". Wrong again. Jerry Jones, Al Davis, and Rooney. Oakland in their glory days, Dallas, and Pittsburgh. They probably have 12-13 SB's between them. Jimmy Johnson and Chuck Noll were the Personnel gurus for the Cowboys and Steelers, respectively. Rooney stood way out of the way to let Chuck do his thing, and his sons have employed a similar philosophy after Art left this planet. To a large extent (with the exception of character cases), they let the GM’s do their thing and sign the checks. Jerruh reluctantly stood back while Jimmuh did his thing, but couldn’t stand seeing Johnson getting the lion’s share of the credit, so he pushed him out the door and started his very active role in personnel decisions. Unsurprisingly, the cupboard has been bare ever since Jimmuh’s roster started depleting no matter which coach was brought in. You can throw the Daniel in with Jones as a case of an owner being involved to an even larger detriment to his franchise. Al Davis was a different cat: a personnel guy who gained control of a franchise through mob connections and money despite having little money of his own. IMO Davis was the sole exception, and was unique in circumstances. |
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Post by NoMoreChillies on Apr 15, 2019 4:34:32 GMT -7
What do you guys think of Dalton Risner? I think I've settled on him as my personal favorite of guys that I think are likely to realistically be there at pick 28. I just like his reported toughness, smarts, and the fact that he could slide inside if needed. Basically I feel like either the guards will be fine this year or Tevi will be fine, but it might be asking a bit much to assume both of those to pan out. So to grab a guy with Risner's quality that has the flexibility to play either RT or guard is very appealing to me. He would make a great RT, and i wouldnt be angry with the pick. I still think DT would make more of an impact
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 15, 2019 7:12:59 GMT -7
What do you guys think of Dalton Risner? I think I've settled on him as my personal favorite of guys that I think are likely to realistically be there at pick 28. I just like his reported toughness, smarts, and the fact that he could slide inside if needed. Basically I feel like either the guards will be fine this year or Tevi will be fine, but it might be asking a bit much to assume both of those to pan out. So to grab a guy with Risner's quality that has the flexibility to play either RT or guard is very appealing to me. He would make a great RT, and i wouldnt be angry with the pick. I still think DT would make more of an impact NMC.....so you would not be angry if TT passed on Wilkins to take Risner ? My point is simple, until the draft has moved passed the 28th pick, very difficult to know just how one might feel.
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 15, 2019 7:18:18 GMT -7
Owners do not spend enough time studying the players available to have the knowledge required, and I have never experienced that. I believe any GM that did that would undercut his value in the owners eye. The owner is paying for that expertise, and abdicating it at such a crucial time would seem unwise. GM's having an OC or DC in on the decision, even to the point of letting one decide on which player between two options, is not far fetched. That said, I believe it is more probable that the GM is making the decision, as OC/DC's have a much more narrow area of responsibility....which is win now. I can think of 3 owners straight off the top of my head. You tried to spin it with "successful teams don't do this". Wrong again. Jerry Jones, Al Davis, and Rooney. Oakland in their glory days, Dallas, and Pittsburgh. They probably have 12-13 SB's between them. My thought is these noted owners played far less of a role than how the media reported it. I have no idea if Joe's reply to your post is accurate or not, but these owners did not become successful by making decisions in areas that they know little about. They hire the expertise, and in most cases trust it.
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 15, 2019 7:24:48 GMT -7
I can think of 3 owners straight off the top of my head. You tried to spin it with "successful teams don't do this". Wrong again. Jerry Jones, Al Davis, and Rooney. Oakland in their glory days, Dallas, and Pittsburgh. They probably have 12-13 SB's between them. Jimmy Johnson and Chuck Noll were the Personnel gurus for the Cowboys and Steelers, respectively. Rooney stood way out of the way to let Chuck do his thing, and his sons have employed a similar philosophy after Art left this planet. To a large extent (with the exception of character cases), they let the GM’s do their thing and sign the checks. Jerruh reluctantly stood back while Jimmuh did his thing, but couldn’t stand seeing Johnson getting the lion’s share of the credit, so he pushed him out the door and started his very active role in personnel decisions. Unsurprisingly, the cupboard has been bare ever since Jimmuh’s roster started depleting no matter which coach was brought in. You can throw the Daniel in with Jones as a case of an owner being involved to an even larger detriment to his franchise. Al Davis was a different cat: a personnel guy who gained control of a franchise through mob connections and money despite having little money of his own. IMO Davis was the sole exception, and was unique in circumstances. These are good takes, even if wrong. The Rooneys have a LONG history of personnel involvement. Stories after stories......one of his son's said he never heard the end from his dad for not drafting Dan Marino, who his dad wanted, and played college at Pitt.
The discussion isn't about Jerruh being a disaster in personnel decisions, its about him having it at all. He does, and you said he does. Thanks.
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