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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 15, 2019 7:26:40 GMT -7
I can think of 3 owners straight off the top of my head. You tried to spin it with "successful teams don't do this". Wrong again. Jerry Jones, Al Davis, and Rooney. Oakland in their glory days, Dallas, and Pittsburgh. They probably have 12-13 SB's between them. My thought is these noted owners played far less of a role than how the media reported it. I have no idea if Joe's reply to your post is accurate or not, but these owners did not become successful by making decisions in areas that they know little about. They hire the expertise, and in most cases trust it. Well, you know now.
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Post by sonorajim on Apr 15, 2019 8:33:47 GMT -7
He would make a great RT, and i wouldnt be angry with the pick. I still think DT would make more of an impact NMC.....so you would not be angry if TT passed on Wilkins to take Risner ? My point is simple, until the draft has moved passed the 28th pick, very difficult to know just how one might feel. Risner might be a good choice. At #28 I'd be looking at the Chargers top 50 ranked players , check them off as they get taken and have trade up/trade down scenarios that I'd consider, depending. Risner would be in my top 50.
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Post by joemcrugby on Apr 15, 2019 8:50:07 GMT -7
Jimmy Johnson and Chuck Noll were the Personnel gurus for the Cowboys and Steelers, respectively. Rooney stood way out of the way to let Chuck do his thing, and his sons have employed a similar philosophy after Art left this planet. To a large extent (with the exception of character cases), they let the GM’s do their thing and sign the checks. Jerruh reluctantly stood back while Jimmuh did his thing, but couldn’t stand seeing Johnson getting the lion’s share of the credit, so he pushed him out the door and started his very active role in personnel decisions. Unsurprisingly, the cupboard has been bare ever since Jimmuh’s roster started depleting no matter which coach was brought in. You can throw the Daniel in with Jones as a case of an owner being involved to an even larger detriment to his franchise. Al Davis was a different cat: a personnel guy who gained control of a franchise through mob connections and money despite having little money of his own. IMO Davis was the sole exception, and was unique in circumstances. These are good takes, even if wrong. The Rooneys have a LONG history of personnel involvement. Stories after stories......one of his son's said he never heard the end from his dad for not drafting Dan Marino, who his dad wanted, and played college at Pitt.
The discussion isn't about Jerruh being a disaster in personnel decisions, its about him having it at all. He does, and you said he does. Thanks.
I thought that your point was that successful owners do it. Art Rooney and his Steelers were the sad sacks and laughingstocks of the NFL for decades, the equivalent of the reborn from the ashes expansion franchise Cleveland Browns of the past two decades. Only after Chuck Noll was hired and was responsible for personnel decisions and Art’s role was limited to signing checks did the fortunes of the franchise do a 180. From my understanding, the sons of Rooney’s main “personnel” role since the dawn of free agency has been for their franchise to pursue a develop their own and have a very limited presence in free agency philosophy. Outside of deciding that character flawed players need to go or shouldn’t be drafted, they don’t get involved in the decision “let’s draft player X instead of player Y”; they leave that to the professional personnel people that they hire. I don’t believe that I am incorrect in that assessment. As for Jerruh, two playoff wins over the past 22 seasons after Jimmy Johnson’s core started departing from the franchise proved what a disaster Jerruh and his ego have been as a GM, and you’re talking about an owner who played big boy D1 football at Arkansas. The almost universal rule regarding modern NFL ownership is that the more an owner inserts himself/herself into the personnel decision process, the worse it is for the franchise. |
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 15, 2019 9:07:17 GMT -7
These are good takes, even if wrong. The Rooneys have a LONG history of personnel involvement. Stories after stories......one of his son's said he never heard the end from his dad for not drafting Dan Marino, who his dad wanted, and played college at Pitt.
The discussion isn't about Jerruh being a disaster in personnel decisions, its about him having it at all. He does, and you said he does. Thanks.
I thought that your point was that successful owners do it. Art Rooney and his Steelers were the sad sacks and laughingstocks of the NFL for decades, the equivalent of the reborn from the ashes expansion franchise Cleveland Browns of the past two decades. Only after Chuck Noll was hired and was responsible for personnel decisions and Art’s role was limited to signing checks did the fortunes of the franchise do a 180. From my understanding, the sons of Rooney’s main “personnel” role since the dawn of free agency has been for their franchise to pursue a develop their own and have a very limited presence in free agency philosophy. Outside of deciding that character flawed players need to go or shouldn’t be drafted, they don’t get involved in the decision “let’s draft player X instead of player Y”; they leave that to the professional personnel people that they hire. I don’t believe that I am incorrect in that assessment. As for Jerruh, two playoff wins over the past 22 seasons after Jimmy Johnson’s core started departing from the franchise proved what a disaster Jerruh and his ego have been as a GM, and you’re talking about an owner who played big boy D1 football at Arkansas. The almost universal rule regarding modern NFL ownership is that the more an owner inserts himself/herself into the personnel decision process, the worse it is for the franchise.The last sentence has been my experience in the NHL, and it rings true for the NFL in as much as I can tell.
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 15, 2019 9:09:12 GMT -7
NMC.....so you would not be angry if TT passed on Wilkins to take Risner ? My point is simple, until the draft has moved passed the 28th pick, very difficult to know just how one might feel. Risner might be a good choice. At #28 I'd be looking at the Chargers top 50 ranked players , check them off as they get taken and have trade up/trade down scenarios that I'd consider, depending. Risner would be in my top 50. I am not against Risner in any way at all, he would certainly be in consideration, but I just suspect there will be better talent available.
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 15, 2019 9:33:03 GMT -7
These are good takes, even if wrong. The Rooneys have a LONG history of personnel involvement. Stories after stories......one of his son's said he never heard the end from his dad for not drafting Dan Marino, who his dad wanted, and played college at Pitt.
The discussion isn't about Jerruh being a disaster in personnel decisions, its about him having it at all. He does, and you said he does. Thanks.
I thought that your point was that successful owners do it. Art Rooney and his Steelers were the sad sacks and laughingstocks of the NFL for decades, the equivalent of the reborn from the ashes expansion franchise Cleveland Browns of the past two decades. Only after Chuck Noll was hired and was responsible for personnel decisions and Art’s role was limited to signing checks did the fortunes of the franchise do a 180. From my understanding, the sons of Rooney’s main “personnel” role since the dawn of free agency has been for their franchise to pursue a develop their own and have a very limited presence in free agency philosophy. Outside of deciding that character flawed players need to go or shouldn’t be drafted, they don’t get involved in the decision “let’s draft player X instead of player Y”; they leave that to the professional personnel people that they hire. I don’t believe that I am incorrect in that assessment. As for Jerruh, two playoff wins over the past 22 seasons after Jimmy Johnson’s core started departing from the franchise proved what a disaster Jerruh and his ego have been as a GM, and you’re talking about an owner who played big boy D1 football at Arkansas. The almost universal rule regarding modern NFL ownership is that the more an owner inserts himself/herself into the personnel decision process, the worse it is for the franchise. I didn't know Jerry played D1 back in the day. That's worse, cuz then he thinks he knows personnel. He has had some scary selections. He thinks he knows because 51 years ago he played at Arkansas. It's almost as bad as an NHL employee knows NFL. Almost, but not quite.
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 15, 2019 9:40:24 GMT -7
I thought that your point was that successful owners do it. Art Rooney and his Steelers were the sad sacks and laughingstocks of the NFL for decades, the equivalent of the reborn from the ashes expansion franchise Cleveland Browns of the past two decades. Only after Chuck Noll was hired and was responsible for personnel decisions and Art’s role was limited to signing checks did the fortunes of the franchise do a 180. From my understanding, the sons of Rooney’s main “personnel” role since the dawn of free agency has been for their franchise to pursue a develop their own and have a very limited presence in free agency philosophy. Outside of deciding that character flawed players need to go or shouldn’t be drafted, they don’t get involved in the decision “let’s draft player X instead of player Y”; they leave that to the professional personnel people that they hire. I don’t believe that I am incorrect in that assessment. As for Jerruh, two playoff wins over the past 22 seasons after Jimmy Johnson’s core started departing from the franchise proved what a disaster Jerruh and his ego have been as a GM, and you’re talking about an owner who played big boy D1 football at Arkansas. The almost universal rule regarding modern NFL ownership is that the more an owner inserts himself/herself into the personnel decision process, the worse it is for the franchise.The last sentence has been my experience in the NHL, and it rings true for the NFL in as much as I can tell. If only you kissed up to woodMod as much of the others, we wouldn't be in this boat. Sad really.
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Post by sonorajim on Apr 15, 2019 9:46:04 GMT -7
Risner might be a good choice. At #28 I'd be looking at the Chargers top 50 ranked players , check them off as they get taken and have trade up/trade down scenarios that I'd consider, depending. Risner would be in my top 50. I am not against Risner in any way at all, he would certainly be in consideration, but I just suspect there will be better talent available. I share that suspicion. Risner would be a default pick. Bradbury is in my cluster also. Played OG well before becoming a top C.
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 15, 2019 9:50:36 GMT -7
The last sentence has been my experience in the NHL, and it rings true for the NFL in as much as I can tell. If only you kissed up to woodMod as much of the others, we wouldn't be in this boat. Sad really. What 'boat' is that ?
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 15, 2019 9:53:45 GMT -7
If only you kissed up to woodMod as much of the others, we wouldn't be in this boat. Sad really. What 'boat' is that ? The frozen was mean to wood boat, that's what boat.
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 15, 2019 9:53:55 GMT -7
I am not against Risner in any way at all, he would certainly be in consideration, but I just suspect there will be better talent available. I share that suspicion. Risner would be a default pick. Bradbury is in my cluster also. Played OG well before becoming a top C. I have a feeling TT makes his pick at 28th, and many are stunned it is not OL/DL.......
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 15, 2019 9:56:37 GMT -7
The frozen was mean to wood boat, that's what boat. You are peddling falsehoods....... Woodmod did not like my calling Rapp a 2nd rd talent, if he took his binky and went to TPB's over that, seems weak.
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 15, 2019 10:00:57 GMT -7
The frozen was mean to wood boat, that's what boat. You are peddling falsehoods....... Woodmod did not like my calling Rapp a 2nd rd talent, if he took his binky and went to TPB's over that, seems weak. Picking on the defenseless now. I'm going back to watching the final HBO season of Game of Emperors, or some such title..................
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 15, 2019 10:08:13 GMT -7
You are peddling falsehoods....... Woodmod did not like my calling Rapp a 2nd rd talent, if he took his binky and went to TPB's over that, seems weak. Picking on the defenseless now. I'm going back to watching the final HBO season of Game of Emperors, or some such title.................. Who is defenseless ? Certainly is not Woodmod......and he attempted to defend his Rapp pick, but found he was on his own. I think it was Boltnut that destroyed the Rapp pick, but it was not me.....I just called Rapp 2nd rd talent.
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Post by joemcrugby on Apr 15, 2019 10:17:06 GMT -7
The last sentence has been my experience in the NHL, and it rings true for the NFL in as much as I can tell. If only you kissed up to woodMod as much of the others, we wouldn't be in this boat. Sad really. As Chargeroo and Sonorajim can attest, that has been my ownership take (ad nauseum in the Nonsense forum at the CMB) for fifteen years. In fact, I believe that it has been reinforced over that timeframe with the examples that are the Cowboys and Redskins franchises. |
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