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Post by chargerfreak on May 11, 2023 5:34:55 GMT -7
Yes and Lamar has had no offensive help. The Bengals got Burrow a weapon when the world said Penei Sewell. More than anything, Mahomes, Lamar, Hurts and burrow have better coaching. If I’m Herbert I’m in no hurry to sign long term with the Chargers. No offensive help? They’ve had a top-tier oline and strong RB’s for his entire career with the exception of 2021 when the top 3 RB’s were knocked out for the season by injuries. They’ve had very good TE’s with only the WR’s being considered average recently. Lamar’s streakiness in the pocket is the main factor that has held back the Ravens passing attack. Luckily for everybody that you aren’t Herbert. The announcement for his record contact in the next couple of months is a mere formality. Bank on it. 😉 Nominated POTD
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Post by frozendisc on May 11, 2023 6:02:32 GMT -7
And that is the problem most fans have with contracts at the pro level. A player is not paid off of his past, he is payed off of the projections of his future play. Its a little of both. Ekeler wouldn't even dare discuss 9-10-11 million a year if it wasn't for his past performance. If he had been average he would take his 6 million and skip down the sidewalk. Did you know 49ers RB Christian McCaffrey gets 16 million a year ?!?!?!?!?!?! No, it is not. And everyone is missing the issue with Ekeler.....it is not performance, rather it is age influencing projected performance. Ekeler has stated he wants a "long term commitment"....so what does that mean? Ekeler is 28 going into the 23-24 season. A three year deal that would start 24-25 season would take him to age 32.....performance and health drop off at age 30 for RB's.....but let's say Ekeler is the exception....three years is the absolute maximum. Five years at top money would require Ekeler to find a GM such as McCaffrey found.....and Ekeler was free to look, was he not?
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Post by frozendisc on May 11, 2023 6:14:45 GMT -7
And that is the problem most fans have with contracts at the pro level. A player is not paid off of his past, he is payed off of the projections of his future play. Not to stir up af, but Ekeler is the great example. Ekeler wants top money over significant term, presumably. The issue for the club is Ekeler's age, and what the projections imply. 2-3 years is probably doable, but anything longer becomes questionable. If, and I say 'if' because I am not in the room, but if Ekeler is looking for five years, not going to happen. Now Herbert's projections for the next, what....ten years, are off the chart. Herbert will get paid.....and not having a PO win won't matter one bit. Blah, blah, blah….they aren’t getting their money’s worth on any of the big contracts. Not Bosa, not Derwin and not Keenan. I absolutely agree about Bosa.....would have traded him two seasons ago. Health has been an issue for James and KA, as well as MW. When healthy the value seems solid.
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Post by frozendisc on May 11, 2023 6:18:31 GMT -7
None of what you posted will even remotely influence Herbert's new deal..... That's the first post of yours that I have hit the like button on in a long time. C'est bien de voir que vous ne laissez pas complètement votre haine déterminer vos actions.
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Post by chargerfreak on May 11, 2023 6:27:48 GMT -7
That's the first post of yours that I have hit the like button on in a long time. C'est bien de voir que vous ne laissez pas complètement votre haine déterminer vos actions. My heavens !!! You want to compliment my hiney so you can determine actions ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I have never !!!!!
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Post by lazylightning on May 11, 2023 6:50:40 GMT -7
Yes and Lamar has had no offensive help. The Bengals got Burrow a weapon when the world said Penei Sewell. More than anything, Mahomes, Lamar, Hurts and burrow have better coaching. If I’m Herbert I’m in no hurry to sign long term with the Chargers. Add Lawrence and Jones to that list... Daniel freaking Jones got a payday because he had Brian Daboll... If I was Daboll I'd get compensation from Jones...
Herbert is stuck with Staley and now Moore as a consolation prize...
I think we can all agree Herbert deserves to get paid, should be zero argument. Question is how much TT and the Chargers will attempt to low ball him.
Not everyone gets paid what they think they are worth. Not really certain its because TT is low balling them. If I was Herbert, I would consider waiting till next year. Option 1: Staley and team become competitive with a deep playoff run; then Herbert's value will increase. Herbert will prove he can avoid choking hazards. Option 2: Staley and the team flops again, I think both TT and Staley are shown the door. Herbert can then evaluate/negotiate with their replacements.
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Post by moekid on May 11, 2023 8:33:40 GMT -7
Add Lawrence and Jones to that list... Daniel freaking Jones got a payday because he had Brian Daboll... If I was Daboll I'd get compensation from Jones...
Herbert is stuck with Staley and now Moore as a consolation prize...
I think we can all agree Herbert deserves to get paid, should be zero argument. Question is how much TT and the Chargers will attempt to low ball him.
Not everyone gets paid what they think they are worth. Not really certain its because TT is low balling them. If I was Herbert, I would consider waiting till next year. Option 1: Staley and team become competitive with a deep playoff run; then Herbert's value will increase. Herbert will prove he can avoid choking hazards. Option 2: Staley and the team flops again, I think both TT and Staley are shown the door. Herbert can then evaluate/negotiate with their replacements. Nominated POTD. So there Freak and McRub |
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Post by amped on May 11, 2023 9:13:59 GMT -7
Not everyone gets paid what they think they are worth. Not really certain its because TT is low balling them. If I was Herbert, I would consider waiting till next year. Option 1: Staley and team become competitive with a deep playoff run; then Herbert's value will increase. Herbert will prove he can avoid choking hazards. Option 2: Staley and the team flops again, I think both TT and Staley are shown the door. Herbert can then evaluate/negotiate with their replacements. Nominated POTD. So there Freak and McRub It is too risky as a player to wait. Every play could be his last so you get your maximum value now. The market right now says J Herbert will have generational wealth coming to him this year. at 50+ million per year with close to 200 million guaranteed. Waiting would be stupid. Sure you negotiate to get the absolute most you can get. but holding off until next year or the year following is just silly talk.
I UN-nominate that as POTD.
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Post by joemcrugby on May 11, 2023 9:28:00 GMT -7
Nominated POTD. So there Freak and McRub It is too risky as a player to wait. Every play could be his last so you get your maximum value now. The market right now says J Herbert will have generational wealth coming to him this year. at 50+ million per year with close to 200 million guaranteed. Waiting would be stupid. Sure you negotiate to get the absolute most you can get. but holding off until next year or the year following is just silly talk.
I UN-nominate that as POTD.
The player's personality needs to be taken into account when considering whether to roll the dice on the hope that an extension contract in 2024 will be even larger or that he'll be able to choose his own team following the 2024 season. Unless I am a horrible judge of character & personality, Herbert is a dude who is perfectly happy with his current setting and will be perfectly content with the massive generational wealth guaranteed contract that will be his before stepping onto the field in his next game. And that's all without taking into consideration that Herbert will not be "free" to leave until 2027 after the Chargers apply two consecutive exclusive rights franchise tags on him in 2025 and 2026. There is zero doubt in my mind that Herbert puts his John Hancock on the papyrus in the next couple of months before the start of the 2023 season.
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Post by moekid on May 11, 2023 11:18:30 GMT -7
It is too risky as a player to wait. Every play could be his last so you get your maximum value now. The market right now says J Herbert will have generational wealth coming to him this year. at 50+ million per year with close to 200 million guaranteed. Waiting would be stupid. Sure you negotiate to get the absolute most you can get. but holding off until next year or the year following is just silly talk.
I UN-nominate that as POTD.
The player's personality needs to be taken into account when considering whether to roll the dice on the hope that an extension contract in 2024 will be even larger or that he'll be able to choose his own team following the 2024 season. Unless I am a horrible judge of character & personality, Herbert is a dude who is perfectly happy with his current setting and will be perfectly content with the massive generational wealth guaranteed contract that will be his before stepping onto the field in his next game. And that's all without taking into consideration that Herbert will not be "free" to leave until 2027 after the Chargers apply two consecutive exclusive rights franchise tags on him in 2025 and 2026. There is zero doubt in my mind that Herbert puts his John Hancock on the papyrus in the next couple of months before the start of the 2023 season. By all accounts Herbert is a great guy/teammate who wanted to be a Charger since he was 10-11 years old. I expect him to extend. Would be surprised if he doesn’t. I’m just presenting the counter argument here for him and the Chargers. As Lazy pointed out this is a pivotal year. If things go south they could be in a full rebuild, getting rid of massive player contracts and starting over with a new coach and GM. That’s a consideration. We’re not a marquee franchise despite the move to LA. For the Chargers, Herbert is a great talent but as Keenan and Ekeler have said lacks the swag and leadership of others at that position. If he’s a “dude who is perfectly happy with his current setting” I have my own questions about his desire to win and whether the fire burns |
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Post by totallybolted on May 11, 2023 17:49:45 GMT -7
Its a little of both. Ekeler wouldn't even dare discuss 9-10-11 million a year if it wasn't for his past performance. If he had been average he would take his 6 million and skip down the sidewalk. Did you know 49ers RB Christian McCaffrey gets 16 million a year ?!?!?!?!?!?! No, it is not. And everyone is missing the issue with Ekeler.....it is not performance, rather it is age influencing projected performance. Ekeler has stated he wants a "long term commitment"....so what does that mean? Ekeler is 28 going into the 23-24 season. A three year deal that would start 24-25 season would take him to age 32..... performance and health drop off at age 30 for RB's.....but let's say Ekeler is the exception....three years is the absolute maximum. Five years at top money would require Ekeler to find a GM such as McCaffrey found.....and Ekeler was free to look, was he not? That is a general rule and not a sure thing. Ekeler by all accounts has shown better durability than most on this board ever predicted and has PRODUCED. What's to say he won't be that guy even at 32. If he produces in years 24-26, that 3rd year is already paid for.
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Post by amped on May 11, 2023 18:36:04 GMT -7
The player's personality needs to be taken into account when considering whether to roll the dice on the hope that an extension contract in 2024 will be even larger or that he'll be able to choose his own team following the 2024 season. Unless I am a horrible judge of character & personality, Herbert is a dude who is perfectly happy with his current setting and will be perfectly content with the massive generational wealth guaranteed contract that will be his before stepping onto the field in his next game. And that's all without taking into consideration that Herbert will not be "free" to leave until 2027 after the Chargers apply two consecutive exclusive rights franchise tags on him in 2025 and 2026. There is zero doubt in my mind that Herbert puts his John Hancock on the papyrus in the next couple of months before the start of the 2023 season. By all accounts Herbert is a great guy/teammate who wanted to be a Charger since he was 10-11 years old. I expect him to extend. Would be surprised if he doesn’t. I’m just presenting the counter argument here for him and the Chargers. As Lazy pointed out this is a pivotal year. If things go south they could be in a full rebuild, getting rid of massive player contracts and starting over with a new coach and GM. That’s a consideration. We’re not a marquee franchise despite the move to LA. For the Chargers, Herbert is a great talent but as Keenan and Ekeler have said lacks the swag and leadership of others at that position. If he’s a “dude who is perfectly happy with his current setting” I have my own questions about his desire to win and whether the fire burns Ekeler said this: "I agree that Herbert's biggest weakness is that he does not have enough experience to call and run what is needed to win"
Keenan said this: " "It's the confidence to be who he is. He knows that he can make the throws, he knows that he can make the plays, he knows that he has guys around him that can make the plays around him as well. But the confidence to just be like 'F this' I'm about to do me."
"It's part of his personality. I tell him all the time, 'It's your team.' The way Phil [Philip Rivers] used to run a team, ain't nobody telling Phil nothing. We lose we're going to lose on Phil's terms. He's got to be able to take over the team."
That is way more nuanced and less debasing that what you said.
If our defense was just one stop better in almost all of our games last year be win more games and advance to the divisional round.
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Post by frozendisc on May 12, 2023 6:32:44 GMT -7
No, it is not. And everyone is missing the issue with Ekeler.....it is not performance, rather it is age influencing projected performance. Ekeler has stated he wants a "long term commitment"....so what does that mean? Ekeler is 28 going into the 23-24 season. A three year deal that would start 24-25 season would take him to age 32..... performance and health drop off at age 30 for RB's.....but let's say Ekeler is the exception....three years is the absolute maximum. Five years at top money would require Ekeler to find a GM such as McCaffrey found.....and Ekeler was free to look, was he not? That is a general rule and not a sure thing. Ekeler by all accounts has shown better durability than most on this board ever predicted and has PRODUCED. What's to say he won't be that guy even at 32. If he produces in years 24-26, that 3rd year is already paid for. There is no firm answer.....Ekeler could be the best RB in the NFL at age 37....but it is not likely. GM's make decisions based off of projections, and there are no projections saying Ekeler will be awesome after 30.....but he might be, so maybe you give him that three year deal, which takes him to age 32. Ekeler seeks both top money, and term.....he won't see that.
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Post by moekid on May 12, 2023 8:08:00 GMT -7
That is a general rule and not a sure thing. Ekeler by all accounts has shown better durability than most on this board ever predicted and has PRODUCED. What's to say he won't be that guy even at 32. If he produces in years 24-26, that 3rd year is already paid for. There is no firm answer.....Ekeler could be the best RB in the NFL at age 37....but it is not likely. GM's make decisions based off of projections, and there are no projections saying Ekeler will be awesome after 30.....but he might be, so maybe you give him that three year deal, which takes him to age 32. Ekeler seeks both top money, and term.....he won't see that. If Ekeler was used as he should be like the Ronnie Harmon of the backfield I have no doubt he’d have 3-4 very productive years left. Problem is we don’t have a Natrone Means |
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Post by moekid on May 12, 2023 8:12:19 GMT -7
By all accounts Herbert is a great guy/teammate who wanted to be a Charger since he was 10-11 years old. I expect him to extend. Would be surprised if he doesn’t. I’m just presenting the counter argument here for him and the Chargers. As Lazy pointed out this is a pivotal year. If things go south they could be in a full rebuild, getting rid of massive player contracts and starting over with a new coach and GM. That’s a consideration. We’re not a marquee franchise despite the move to LA. For the Chargers, Herbert is a great talent but as Keenan and Ekeler have said lacks the swag and leadership of others at that position. If he’s a “dude who is perfectly happy with his current setting” I have my own questions about his desire to win and whether the fire burns Ekeler said this: "I agree that Herbert's biggest weakness is that he does not have enough experience to call and run what is needed to win"
Keenan said this: " "It's the confidence to be who he is. He knows that he can make the throws, he knows that he can make the plays, he knows that he has guys around him that can make the plays around him as well. But the confidence to just be like 'F this' I'm about to do me."
"It's part of his personality. I tell him all the time, 'It's your team.' The way Phil [Philip Rivers] used to run a team, ain't nobody telling Phil nothing. We lose we're going to lose on Phil's terms. He's got to be able to take over the team."
That is way more nuanced and less debasing that what you said.
If our defense was just one stop better in almost all of our games last year be win more games and advance to the divisional round.
What does “he’s got to be able to take over the team” mean to you? |
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