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Post by frozendisc on Aug 10, 2023 7:44:13 GMT -7
When a club does not win, the fans will always find plenty of reasons.....
One club wins it all, the rest search for solutions.
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Post by afboltfan on Aug 10, 2023 15:35:57 GMT -7
Big teams would have fired Staley's ass. I like how the executive gave a reason that they didn't: The team is cheap. That about sums it up boys. They spend to the cap every year, the problem is on spending outside the cap. Coaches and executives don't count against the cap. So yes we do spend to the cap every year on players but Spanos is either too poor, cheap, or a combination of both to spend on coaches. I already know some of you will point to Moore... I can't find his Chargers contract anywhere online but with the Cowboys his contract was only worth a little over a million and an average salary of $760,000. This is a man who is betting on himself and we did well to get him... BUT that does not erase the cheap reputation Spanos has regarding head coaches.
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Post by joemcrugby on Aug 10, 2023 16:07:36 GMT -7
They spend to the cap every year, the problem is on spending outside the cap. Coaches and executives don't count against the cap. So yes we do spend to the cap every year on players but Spanos is either too poor, cheap, or a combination of both to spend on coaches. I already know some of you will point to Moore... I can't find his Chargers contract anywhere online but with the Cowboys his contract was only worth a little over a million and an average salary of $760,000. This is a man who is betting on himself and we did well to get him... BUT that does not erase the cheap reputation Spanos has regarding head coaches. I guess Kroenke was cheap - and so are most of the NFL owners since the veteran coach signing for big $$$ is rare occurrence in today's NFL. When is the last time that a big name high $$$ coach signing paid off? Jon Gruden (I'm talking Raiders Part 2, not the trade by the Bucs)? Urban Meyer? Steve Spurrier? I could go on and on ... Hell, even HOFer Bill Parcells didn't pay off for the Cowboys. Maybe somebody will trade for a young suggessful head coach like the Bucs did two decades ago or Sean Payton will break the even longer mold of paying big $$$ for a coach who was previously successful elsewhere. Otherwise, 90% of NFL teams are looking to hire young assistants getting their first head coaching gig who have been in a successful system.
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Post by afboltfan on Aug 10, 2023 17:34:14 GMT -7
Coaches and executives don't count against the cap. So yes we do spend to the cap every year on players but Spanos is either too poor, cheap, or a combination of both to spend on coaches. I already know some of you will point to Moore... I can't find his Chargers contract anywhere online but with the Cowboys his contract was only worth a little over a million and an average salary of $760,000. This is a man who is betting on himself and we did well to get him... BUT that does not erase the cheap reputation Spanos has regarding head coaches. I guess Kroenke was cheap - and so are most of the NFL owners since the veteran coach signing for big $$$ is rare occurrence in today's NFL. When is the last time that a big name high $$$ coach signing paid off? Jon Gruden (I'm talking Raiders Part 2, not the trade by the Bucs)? Urban Meyer? Steve Spurrier? I could go on and on ... Hell, even HOFer Bill Parcells didn't pay off for the Cowboys. Maybe somebody will trade for a young suggessful head coach like the Bucs did two decades ago or Sean Payton will break the even longer mold of paying big $$$ for a coach who was previously successful elsewhere. Otherwise, 90% of NFL teams are looking to hire young assistants getting their first head coaching gig who have been in a successful system. I'm not going to deny it is a fad... BUT...just because I wear bell bottoms my whole life doesn't mean I'll be out of style the whole time.
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Post by frozendisc on Aug 10, 2023 17:59:00 GMT -7
They spend to the cap every year, the problem is on spending outside the cap. Coaches and executives don't count against the cap. So yes we do spend to the cap every year on players but Spanos is either too poor, cheap, or a combination of both to spend on coaches. I already know some of you will point to Moore... I can't find his Chargers contract anywhere online but with the Cowboys his contract was only worth a little over a million and an average salary of $760,000. This is a man who is betting on himself and we did well to get him... BUT that does not erase the cheap reputation Spanos has regarding head coaches. If the Chargers win the Super Bowl this season, is Spanos cheap or brilliant? My point is hiring's such as these are based more off of a belief in the person and what they will bring, be it front office or a coach, versus cost. Yes, cost does play a factor.....an example would be if Moore had wanted five million/ three years he would not be the OC. (any crazy examples can be created to illustrate this, i just chose Moore)
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Post by moekid on Aug 10, 2023 22:42:31 GMT -7
Coaches and executives don't count against the cap. So yes we do spend to the cap every year on players but Spanos is either too poor, cheap, or a combination of both to spend on coaches. I already know some of you will point to Moore... I can't find his Chargers contract anywhere online but with the Cowboys his contract was only worth a little over a million and an average salary of $760,000. This is a man who is betting on himself and we did well to get him... BUT that does not erase the cheap reputation Spanos has regarding head coaches. I guess Kroenke was cheap - and so are most of the NFL owners since the veteran coach signing for big $$$ is rare occurrence in today's NFL. When is the last time that a big name high $$$ coach signing paid off? Jon Gruden (I'm talking Raiders Part 2, not the trade by the Bucs)? Urban Meyer? Steve Spurrier? I could go on and on ... Hell, even HOFer Bill Parcells didn't pay off for the Cowboys. Maybe somebody will trade for a young suggessful head coach like the Bucs did two decades ago or Sean Payton will break the even longer mold of paying big $$$ for a coach who was previously successful elsewhere. Otherwise, 90% of NFL teams are looking to hire young assistants getting their first head coaching gig who have been in a successful system. The Chargers have only been successful when they’ve hired a HC who had previous success. Don’t know about the big $$ stuff but Coryell, Ross and Marty all came with great HC resumes. Andy Reid, Bruce Arians and Doug Pedersen are more recent examples. Maybe Mike McCarthy as well. For some reason this franchise hasn’t been able to identify coordinators who can make the leap. I thought they should have hired Daboll over Staley. Made sense to hire an OC with a young QB. I would have taken Payton as well. Staley has a chance to rewrite Charger history this season. We’ll see |
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Post by afboltfan on Aug 11, 2023 4:20:45 GMT -7
Coaches and executives don't count against the cap. So yes we do spend to the cap every year on players but Spanos is either too poor, cheap, or a combination of both to spend on coaches. I already know some of you will point to Moore... I can't find his Chargers contract anywhere online but with the Cowboys his contract was only worth a little over a million and an average salary of $760,000. This is a man who is betting on himself and we did well to get him... BUT that does not erase the cheap reputation Spanos has regarding head coaches. My point is hiring's such as these are based more off of a belief in the person and what they will bring, be it front office or a coach, versus cost. Yes, cost does play a factor.....an example would be if Moore had wanted five million/ three years he would not be the OC. (any crazy examples can be created to illustrate this, i just chose Moore) You won't like my answer. But the key acquisition here would be Moore not Staley.
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Post by chargerfreak on Aug 11, 2023 5:21:01 GMT -7
Big teams would have fired Staley's ass. I like how the executive gave a reason that they didn't: The team is cheap. That about sums it up boys. They spend to the cap every year, the problem is on spending outside the cap. Oh yeah. Coaches are not in the cap.
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Post by joemcrugby on Aug 11, 2023 5:30:04 GMT -7
I guess Kroenke was cheap - and so are most of the NFL owners since the veteran coach signing for big $$$ is rare occurrence in today's NFL. When is the last time that a big name high $$$ coach signing paid off? Jon Gruden (I'm talking Raiders Part 2, not the trade by the Bucs)? Urban Meyer? Steve Spurrier? I could go on and on ... Hell, even HOFer Bill Parcells didn't pay off for the Cowboys. Maybe somebody will trade for a young suggessful head coach like the Bucs did two decades ago or Sean Payton will break the even longer mold of paying big $$$ for a coach who was previously successful elsewhere. Otherwise, 90% of NFL teams are looking to hire young assistants getting their first head coaching gig who have been in a successful system. The Chargers have only been successful when they’ve hired a HC who had previous success. Don’t know about the big $$ stuff but Coryell, Ross and Marty all came with great HC resumes. Andy Reid, Bruce Arians and Doug Pedersen are more recent examples. Maybe Mike McCarthy as well. For some reason this franchise hasn’t been able to identify coordinators who can make the leap. I thought they should have hired Daboll over Staley. Made sense to hire an OC with a young QB. I would have taken Payton as well. Staley has a chance to rewrite Charger history this season. We’ll see Both Coryell and Schottenheimer were from a different era in the NFL when hiring young coordinators from successful systems was fairly rare. It’s now the overwhelming norm throughout the NFL. As you noted, it’s a matter of identifying the right guy, not so much looking to be cheap. Steichen is another example of being the right guy, and he was Herbie’s QB coach during Lynn’s final season. Steichen hadn’t been a coordinator yet so he wasn’t ready for a head coaching gig, but in hindsight he would have been a far better choice than Lombardi in 2021. Most of us believe that it’s a make or break season for Staley, so the time is now for him to prove that he was the right choice. Otherwise, it’s back to the drawing board in 2024. |
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Post by frozendisc on Aug 11, 2023 5:48:44 GMT -7
The Chargers have only been successful when they’ve hired a HC who had previous success. Don’t know about the big $$ stuff but Coryell, Ross and Marty all came with great HC resumes. Andy Reid, Bruce Arians and Doug Pedersen are more recent examples. Maybe Mike McCarthy as well. For some reason this franchise hasn’t been able to identify coordinators who can make the leap. I thought they should have hired Daboll over Staley. Made sense to hire an OC with a young QB. I would have taken Payton as well. Staley has a chance to rewrite Charger history this season. We’ll see Both Coryell and Schottenheimer were from a different era in the NFL when hiring young coordinators from successful systems was fairly rare. It’s now the overwhelming norm throughout the NFL. As you noted, it’s a matter of identifying the right guy, not so much looking to be cheap. Steichen is another example of being the right guy, and he was Herbie’s QB coach during Lynn’s final season. Steichen hadn’t been a coordinator yet so he wasn’t ready for a head coaching gig, but in hindsight he would have been a far better choice than Lombardi in 2021. Most of us believe that it’s a make or break season for Staley, so the time is now for him to prove that he was the right choice. Otherwise, it’s back to the drawing board in 2024. I am not in agreement with the perspective that Staley is on the proverbial hot seat. He could put himself there with poor management of the players, game day operation, or even poor game day decisions over multiple games, but I just do not see that occurring. What does make or break even mean? If the Chargers make it to the AFCCG and lose, is Staley fired? The answer is you would want more details about the loss...... Of course if one believes that after this season, win or lose, the plan is to burn it to the ground and rebuild.....everyone below J Spanos is gone.
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Post by amped on Aug 11, 2023 6:04:47 GMT -7
Both Coryell and Schottenheimer were from a different era in the NFL when hiring young coordinators from successful systems was fairly rare. It’s now the overwhelming norm throughout the NFL. As you noted, it’s a matter of identifying the right guy, not so much looking to be cheap. Steichen is another example of being the right guy, and he was Herbie’s QB coach during Lynn’s final season. Steichen hadn’t been a coordinator yet so he wasn’t ready for a head coaching gig, but in hindsight he would have been a far better choice than Lombardi in 2021. Most of us believe that it’s a make or break season for Staley, so the time is now for him to prove that he was the right choice. Otherwise, it’s back to the drawing board in 2024. I am not in agreement with the perspective that Staley is on the proverbial hot seat. He could put himself there with poor management of the players, game day operation, or even poor game day decisions over multiple games, but I just do not see that occurring. What does make or break even mean? If the Chargers make it to the AFCCG and lose, is Staley fired? The answer is you would want more details about the loss...... Of course if one believes that after this season, win or lose, the plan is to burn it to the ground and rebuild.....everyone below J Spanos is gone. Make or break means: Improvement over last year or he is gone.
Win a playoff game or two and he stays for a while longer.
have another crazy melt down in the playoffs or miss them entirely and I think he is gone.
Also if he wins the west he gets to keep his job even with a 1 and done in the post season.
That is what make or break means to me.
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Post by afboltfan on Aug 11, 2023 8:15:21 GMT -7
I am not in agreement with the perspective that Staley is on the proverbial hot seat. He could put himself there with poor management of the players, game day operation, or even poor game day decisions over multiple games, but I just do not see that occurring. What does make or break even mean? If the Chargers make it to the AFCCG and lose, is Staley fired? The answer is you would want more details about the loss...... Of course if one believes that after this season, win or lose, the plan is to burn it to the ground and rebuild.....everyone below J Spanos is gone. Make or break means: Improvement over last year or he is gone.
Win a playoff game or two and he stays for a while longer.
have another crazy melt down in the playoffs or miss them entirely and I think he is gone.
Also if he wins the west he gets to keep his job even with a 1 and done in the post season.
That is what make or break means to me.
I agree with this. I may not like the man as a coach, but results matter. If he can takeover the AFCW from Reid, Payton, and Daniels then he deserves another year. Although another playoff meltdown would make that arguable (for me).
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Post by moekid on Aug 11, 2023 8:36:23 GMT -7
The Chargers have only been successful when they’ve hired a HC who had previous success. Don’t know about the big $$ stuff but Coryell, Ross and Marty all came with great HC resumes. Andy Reid, Bruce Arians and Doug Pedersen are more recent examples. Maybe Mike McCarthy as well. For some reason this franchise hasn’t been able to identify coordinators who can make the leap. I thought they should have hired Daboll over Staley. Made sense to hire an OC with a young QB. I would have taken Payton as well. Staley has a chance to rewrite Charger history this season. We’ll see Both Coryell and Schottenheimer were from a different era in the NFL when hiring young coordinators from successful systems was fairly rare. It’s now the overwhelming norm throughout the NFL. As you noted, it’s a matter of identifying the right guy, not so much looking to be cheap. Steichen is another example of being the right guy, and he was Herbie’s QB coach during Lynn’s final season. Steichen hadn’t been a coordinator yet so he wasn’t ready for a head coaching gig, but in hindsight he would have been a far better choice than Lombardi in 2021. Most of us believe that it’s a make or break season for Staley, so the time is now for him to prove that he was the right choice. Otherwise, it’s back to the drawing board in 2024. I’m not going to research it but I can’t believe it was any different. There’s not a big supply of successful HC’s who are available at any time in history. The HC’s have always come from the ranks. |
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Post by sonorajim on Aug 11, 2023 9:02:48 GMT -7
If the Chargers win the Super Bowl this season, is Spanos cheap or brilliant? My point is hiring's such as these are based more off of a belief in the person and what they will bring, be it front office or a coach, versus cost. Yes, cost does play a factor.....an example would be if Moore had wanted five million/ three years he would not be the OC. (any crazy examples can be created to illustrate this, i just chose Moore) You won't like my answer. But the key acquisition here would be Moore not Staley. Staley assembled the majority of Chargers players and coaches, including Moore and has final word on roster and scheme decisions in 2023. W-L is the final word on Staley's choices.
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Post by joemcrugby on Aug 11, 2023 9:07:22 GMT -7
Both Coryell and Schottenheimer were from a different era in the NFL when hiring young coordinators from successful systems was fairly rare. It’s now the overwhelming norm throughout the NFL. As you noted, it’s a matter of identifying the right guy, not so much looking to be cheap. Steichen is another example of being the right guy, and he was Herbie’s QB coach during Lynn’s final season. Steichen hadn’t been a coordinator yet so he wasn’t ready for a head coaching gig, but in hindsight he would have been a far better choice than Lombardi in 2021. Most of us believe that it’s a make or break season for Staley, so the time is now for him to prove that he was the right choice. Otherwise, it’s back to the drawing board in 2024. I’m not going to research it but I can’t believe it was any different. There’s not a big supply of successful HC’s who are available at any time in history. The HC’s have always come from the ranks. There were more retread head coaches in the past than in today's NFL, but you are correct in that those who weren't came up through the ranks. However, the difference between then and the past five years is that most of the past head coach hires from the ranks were assistants / coordinators who were well into their 40's if not their 50's. The hires over the past five years have been guys in their 30's or early 40's. I'll look up the hires over the past 5 years after work today. You mentioned Marty as a retread and I had been drawing a blank regarding more recent examples than the Gruden trade to the Bucs & Marty, but the most obvious (and successful) example is right in front of my nose: Andy Reid. Then again, Reid is a HOFer the first year he is eligible. He is more of the exception than the rule.
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