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Post by afboltfan on Aug 11, 2023 10:02:11 GMT -7
You won't like my answer. But the key acquisition here would be Moore not Staley. Staley assembled the majority of Chargers players and coaches, including Moore and has final word on roster and scheme decisions in 2023. W-L is the final word on Staley's choices. If its ground hogs day around here this season the final word will be "fired".
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Post by moekid on Aug 11, 2023 16:05:51 GMT -7
I’m not going to research it but I can’t believe it was any different. There’s not a big supply of successful HC’s who are available at any time in history. The HC’s have always come from the ranks. There were more retread head coaches in the past than in today's NFL, but you are correct in that those who weren't came up through the ranks. However, the difference between then and the past five years is that most of the past head coach hires from the ranks were assistants / coordinators who were well into their 40's if not their 50's. The hires over the past five years have been guys in their 30's or early 40's. I'll look up the hires over the past 5 years after work today. You mentioned Marty as a retread and I had been drawing a blank regarding more recent examples than the Gruden trade to the Bucs & Marty, but the most obvious (and successful) example is right in front of my nose: Andy Reid. Then again, Reid is a HOFer the first year he is eligible. He is more of the exception than the rule. Yes I mentioned Reid. Doug Pederson also had immediate impact in JaX. Frank Reich is an example of an older asst as is Bruce Arians who won Coach of the year at Indy and then won a Super Bowl in Tampa. |
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Post by afboltfan on Aug 11, 2023 17:01:54 GMT -7
Young rookie HC's do not win the Superbowl... The outlier being McVay, who is still young but he is nowhere near a rookie. The Rams also bought their Superbowl... The last 10 Superbowl winning coaches are older seasoned coaches.
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Post by joemcrugby on Aug 11, 2023 17:34:14 GMT -7
Young rookie HC's do not win the Superbowl... The outlier being McVay, who is still young but he is nowhere near a rookie. The Rams also bought their Superbowl... The last 10 Superbowl winning coaches are older seasoned coaches. Kind of tough to win a ring as a rookie head coach. Thankfully Staley hasn’t been a rookie since 2021. 😉 37 year old Steichen was a rookie head coach in 2022. He was unlucky not to win one last year. Not a rookie, but same for 36 year old Zac Taylor the year before. The last 4 coaches who have appeared or won in the Super Bowl are first-ballot HOFer Reid and 3 first-time hires who were 38 years old or younger. Very few Super Bowl wins this century have been won by head coaches who had previously won a ring elsewhere serving in that position. Andy Reid is the outlier. And a successful college head coach with no NFL experience hasn’t won a ring since Jimmy Johnson. Those are the expensive big money hires. |
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Post by moekid on Aug 11, 2023 20:40:38 GMT -7
Young rookie HC's do not win the Superbowl... The outlier being McVay, who is still young but he is nowhere near a rookie. The Rams also bought their Superbowl... The last 10 Superbowl winning coaches are older seasoned coaches. Kind of tough to win a ring as a rookie head coach. Thankfully Staley hasn’t been a rookie since 2021. 😉 37 year old Steichen was a rookie head coach in 2022. He was unlucky not to win one last year. Not a rookie, but same for 38 year old Zac Taylor the year before. Very few Super Bowl wins this century have been won by head coaches who had previously won a ring elsewhere serving in that position. Andy Reid is the outlier. And a successful college head coach with no NFL experience hasn’t won a ring since Jimmy Johnson. Those are the expensive big money hires. Steichen was OC for the Eagles. He’s a first time HC this season with the Colts. Andy Reid did not win a ring as a HC prior to KC. The Eagles got there with Andy but lost to the Patriots. Pete Carroll won a ring after college but did have NFL experience. It’s rare for HC to come straight from college to the NFL without any NFL experience. Urban was a terrific failure and Saban less so Jim Harbaugh came very close |
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Post by moekid on Aug 11, 2023 21:10:05 GMT -7
There was a guy on the old Chargers board that wanted Norv fired and did some research and his thing was if a coach doesn’t get you to the Super Bowl — not necessarily win but get you there — within 4 years of being hired he likely never will. There were a couple of notable exceptions but it was surprising how often that seemed to be the case.
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Post by joemcrugby on Aug 11, 2023 21:20:08 GMT -7
Kind of tough to win a ring as a rookie head coach. Thankfully Staley hasn’t been a rookie since 2021. 😉 37 year old Steichen was a rookie head coach in 2022. He was unlucky not to win one last year. Not a rookie, but same for 38 year old Zac Taylor the year before. Very few Super Bowl wins this century have been won by head coaches who had previously won a ring elsewhere serving in that position. Andy Reid is the outlier. And a successful college head coach with no NFL experience hasn’t won a ring since Jimmy Johnson. Those are the expensive big money hires. Steichen was OC for the Eagles. He’s a first time HC this season with the Colts. Andy Reid did not win a ring as a HC prior to KC. The Eagles got there with Andy but lost to the Patriots. Pete Carroll won a ring after college but did have NFL experience. It’s rare for HC to come straight from college to the NFL without any NFL experience. Urban was a terrific failure and Saban less so Jim Harbaugh came very close You’re right about Steichen. Going by memory rather than validating before posting is a dangerous mission. 🤷♂️ |
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Post by joemcrugby on Aug 11, 2023 21:24:16 GMT -7
Kind of tough to win a ring as a rookie head coach. Thankfully Staley hasn’t been a rookie since 2021. 😉 37 year old Steichen was a rookie head coach in 2022. He was unlucky not to win one last year. Not a rookie, but same for 38 year old Zac Taylor the year before. Very few Super Bowl wins this century have been won by head coaches who had previously won a ring elsewhere serving in that position. Andy Reid is the outlier. And a successful college head coach with no NFL experience hasn’t won a ring since Jimmy Johnson. Those are the expensive big money hires. Steichen was OC for the Eagles. He’s a first time HC this season with the Colts. Andy Reid did not win a ring as a HC prior to KC. The Eagles got there with Andy but lost to the Patriots. Pete Carroll won a ring after college but did have NFL experience. It’s rare for HC to come straight from college to the NFL without any NFL experience. Urban was a terrific failure and Saban less so Jim Harbaugh came very close Carroll not only had NFL assistant coach experience, he had two prior NFL head coaching gigs before USC & Seattle. His younger versions that failed would likely have had a different result in today’s NFL. As for Harbaugh, he played and mostly started as an NFL QB for at least a dozen years. And that’s after growing up from a toddler as the son of an NFL assistant coach. Harbaugh isn’t even an outlier in my book: he spent 35 years in an NFL environment when he made the sojourn into collegiate coaching prior to his 49er head coaching job. |
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Post by moekid on Aug 11, 2023 21:28:57 GMT -7
Steichen was OC for the Eagles. He’s a first time HC this season with the Colts. Andy Reid did not win a ring as a HC prior to KC. The Eagles got there with Andy but lost to the Patriots. Pete Carroll won a ring after college but did have NFL experience. It’s rare for HC to come straight from college to the NFL without any NFL experience. Urban was a terrific failure and Saban less so Jim Harbaugh came very close You’re right about Steichen. Going by memory rather than validating before posting is a dangerous mission. 🤷♂️ Gary Kubiak won as a rookie HC for the Broncos. Not sure of whom else |
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Post by joemcrugby on Aug 11, 2023 21:36:54 GMT -7
You’re right about Steichen. Going by memory rather than validating before posting is a dangerous mission. 🤷♂️ Gary Kubiak won as a rookie HC for the Broncos. Not sure of whom else Good catch. 🍺 |
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Post by moekid on Aug 12, 2023 0:21:14 GMT -7
Steichen was OC for the Eagles. He’s a first time HC this season with the Colts. Andy Reid did not win a ring as a HC prior to KC. The Eagles got there with Andy but lost to the Patriots. Pete Carroll won a ring after college but did have NFL experience. It’s rare for HC to come straight from college to the NFL without any NFL experience. Urban was a terrific failure and Saban less so Jim Harbaugh came very close Carroll not only had NFL assistant coach experience, he had two prior NFL head coaching gigs before USC & Seattle. His younger versions that failed would likely have had a different result in today’s NFL. As for Harbaugh, he played and mostly started as an NFL QB for at least a dozen years. And that’s after growing up from a toddler as the son of an NFL assistant coach. Harbaugh isn’t even an outlier in my book: he spent 35 years in an NFL environment when he made the sojourn into collegiate coaching prior to his 49er head coaching job. Has there been a better player than Harbaugh who became a successful HC? He may have had the best playing career of any NFL HC. Both Harbaugh kids have had great coaching careers |
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Post by afboltfan on Aug 12, 2023 4:38:36 GMT -7
There was a guy on the old Chargers board that wanted Norv fired and did some research and his thing was if a coach doesn’t get you to the Super Bowl — not necessarily win but get you there — within 4 years of being hired he likely never will. There were a couple of notable exceptions but it was surprising how often that seemed to be the case. I agree with that to a degree, I think it is a little different in today's NFL where assistants and coordinators come and go on a yearly basis. You can't be successful without a good coordinator, so I'm hoping this year is different for us... I don't think Staley is the guy but we have a chance.
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Post by frozendisc on Aug 12, 2023 5:58:55 GMT -7
There was a guy on the old Chargers board that wanted Norv fired and did some research and his thing was if a coach doesn’t get you to the Super Bowl — not necessarily win but get you there — within 4 years of being hired he likely never will. There were a couple of notable exceptions but it was surprising how often that seemed to be the case. I believe this speaks to the shelf life of a HC's message.....and something GM's are keen to be aware of. It is not so much as 'losing the room' as it is the message grows stale. New OC/DC bring new words to the conversation, eh Once the belief is gone, the taste for change has started.
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Post by frozendisc on Aug 12, 2023 6:02:38 GMT -7
I watched some of that Donks/Cards game.....it is preseason, but the Donks played their starting offence for a long time (first half maybe), and they did not look very good.
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Post by joemcrugby on Aug 15, 2023 10:53:01 GMT -7
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