xenos
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Post by xenos on May 21, 2019 16:32:18 GMT -7
The Patriots are unicorns. Was it Xenos who posted that shape shifter piece? They can beat you in many different ways and change the way they play based on the opponent. You could duplicate their drafts but unless you also have Belichick it probably won't matter. It's much more than the individual players with the Pats, with Brady being possibly the sole exception (although they went 11-5 the season he was out but missed the playoffs).
Teams that have beaten them seem to out-physical them at the LOS and take away the quick hitters Brady loves. The Giants in 2 Super Bowls, the teams you named from last season.
Edit: I see they brought back Jamie Collins. He was a budding star with NE went elsewhere to get paid and underwhelmed. Just another guy who played much much better on the Pats than he did elsewhere.
So is it system, or coaching....... It's the coach. If it was just the system, then BB's disciples would have a lot more success as Head Coaches in this league.
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xenos
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Post by xenos on May 21, 2019 16:34:16 GMT -7
There's a lot of things that could go wrong. Based on everything that has happened this offseason, the FO and coaching staff obviously feel strongly enough about both Lamp and Tevi to not get more OL help. We'll just have to trust that they're right. Obviously, Lamp's injury did not yet sap him of his physical talent like you believed You know Lamp is going to be what exactly ? Yea, you don't know, you are hoping. I have said it for quite some time now, TC 2019 will decide Lamp's future as a player. I say he is a reserve, at best, with being released outright a possibility. Do I know this, nope.....simply a guess. Look what I dug up from before the draft
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xenos
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Post by xenos on May 21, 2019 16:35:19 GMT -7
At least Pat Meyer said what I have been telling you guys forever.............Lamp is a Guard. Guard guard guard. When do you listen to me ? Pat knows what I know, if Lamp gets OT time, we are in bad shape. Its not that he can't learn it and play, its not his strength at the NFL level. Its like Travis Benjamin can play running back, is that who you want back there for 4 quarters ? Lamp's current strength at the NFL level is rehabbing and watching........ That was last year. You know Frozen, maybe if you spent less time talking out of your rear, and more time paying attention you would notice these things
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xenos
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Post by xenos on May 21, 2019 16:38:16 GMT -7
So is it system, or coaching....... It's everything. It's system, coaching, and players. And it starts with situational football. Given different down/distance... the system changes. It takes coaching to recognize the system needs for that particular situation and get them ready to fill that particular role... 3-4 vs 4-3, pass rushers vs run stoppers. And then you have to have the players to fit those various system needs. Look at each position on defense. Various skills/sizes along the DL and LB's. And they put a premium on DB's that can cover. We have DL that is better against the pass than the run (now that Tillery is here and Luiget is gone). We have smallish LB's that are better pass defenders than run stoppers. We will be weak against the run this year. On offense, our OL is suited to run but is weak in pass blocking. Meanwhile, the Patriots have OL that is good at both pass blocking and run blocking. Makes them more balanced on offense and harder to defend. The one thing that often goes un-noticed is the fact that they finish in the top-10 in run attempts almost every year. Their run game compliments their passing game. Just look at their offensive picks this year. WR in the 1st. RB and OT in the 3rd. OG in the 4th. They place a premium on their OL and make sure that, even during injury, their OL positions are deep and versatile. OL is the engine that makes the whole offense go. You wouldn't have guess this during the early parts of the 2014 season. If anything, BB has always been knocked for his drafting. He just does a much better job of coaching than the rest of the league currently.
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Post by moekid on May 21, 2019 16:48:40 GMT -7
It's everything. It's system, coaching, and players. And it starts with situational football. Given different down/distance... the system changes. It takes coaching to recognize the system needs for that particular situation and get them ready to fill that particular role... 3-4 vs 4-3, pass rushers vs run stoppers. And then you have to have the players to fit those various system needs. Look at each position on defense. Various skills/sizes along the DL and LB's. And they put a premium on DB's that can cover. We have DL that is better against the pass than the run (now that Tillery is here and Luiget is gone). We have smallish LB's that are better pass defenders than run stoppers. We will be weak against the run this year. On offense, our OL is suited to run but is weak in pass blocking. Meanwhile, the Patriots have OL that is good at both pass blocking and run blocking. Makes them more balanced on offense and harder to defend. The one thing that often goes un-noticed is the fact that they finish in the top-10 in run attempts almost every year. Their run game compliments their passing game. Just look at their offensive picks this year. WR in the 1st. RB and OT in the 3rd. OG in the 4th. They place a premium on their OL and make sure that, even during injury, their OL positions are deep and versatile. OL is the engine that makes the whole offense go.You wouldn't have guess this during the early parts of the 2014 season. If anything, BB has always been knocked for his drafting. He just does a much better job of coaching than the rest of the league currently. I think that's the bottom line. I don't spend any attention on other teams so I don't know if they draft similarly to the Pats or not or if the Pats are truly outliers in the positions they draft. It all comes back to BB. Im reminded of the Bum Phillips quote about Bear Bryant: "Bryant can take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n."
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Post by boltnut on May 21, 2019 18:11:53 GMT -7
It's everything. It's system, coaching, and players. And it starts with situational football. Given different down/distance... the system changes. It takes coaching to recognize the system needs for that particular situation and get them ready to fill that particular role... 3-4 vs 4-3, pass rushers vs run stoppers. And then you have to have the players to fit those various system needs. Look at each position on defense. Various skills/sizes along the DL and LB's. And they put a premium on DB's that can cover. We have DL that is better against the pass than the run (now that Tillery is here and Luiget is gone). We have smallish LB's that are better pass defenders than run stoppers. We will be weak against the run this year. On offense, our OL is suited to run but is weak in pass blocking. Meanwhile, the Patriots have OL that is good at both pass blocking and run blocking. Makes them more balanced on offense and harder to defend. The one thing that often goes un-noticed is the fact that they finish in the top-10 in run attempts almost every year. Their run game compliments their passing game. Just look at their offensive picks this year. WR in the 1st. RB and OT in the 3rd. OG in the 4th. They place a premium on their OL and make sure that, even during injury, their OL positions are deep and versatile. OL is the engine that makes the whole offense go.You wouldn't have guess this during the early parts of the 2014 season. If anything, BB has always been knocked for his drafting. He just does a much better job of coaching than the rest of the league currently. I don't know why you would say that... They had: 1st rounder at LT (Solder) 2nd Rounder at RT (Vollmer) And an under-rated back-up OT with 3 years of experience (6 games starting) in Marcus Cannon. They had proven guards Dan Connelly and Ryan Wendell (105 games started between the 2). A young Josh Kline (with 7 games played the year before) 4th round pick Cameron Fleming at G/C And had just drafted C Bryan Stork (2013 Remington Award winner) in the 4th round.
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Post by boltnut on May 21, 2019 18:22:19 GMT -7
You wouldn't have guess this during the early parts of the 2014 season. If anything, BB has always been knocked for his drafting. He just does a much better job of coaching than the rest of the league currently. I think that's the bottom line. I don't spend any attention on other teams so I don't know if they draft similarly to the Pats or not or if the Pats are truly outliers in the positions they draft. It all comes back to BB. Im reminded of the Bum Phillips quote about Bear Bryant: "Bryant can take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n." Well BB is definitely beating our "your'n"...
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Post by frozendisc on May 22, 2019 6:31:18 GMT -7
You know Lamp is going to be what exactly ? Yea, you don't know, you are hoping. I have said it for quite some time now, TC 2019 will decide Lamp's future as a player. I say he is a reserve, at best, with being released outright a possibility. Do I know this, nope.....simply a guess. Look what I dug up from before the draft
I stand by that quote completely.....Bolts must feel strongly that Lamp will be more than a spectator this season. ( I must acknowledge that the draft in general, and how it unfolded in particular, supported the defence leaning picks.) Does not mean he will, just means they believe he will. TC 2019 will decide things on Lamp in my view, hoping he is a solid OG for the Bolts.
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Post by frozendisc on May 22, 2019 6:33:53 GMT -7
Lamp's current strength at the NFL level is rehabbing and watching........ That was last year. You know Frozen, maybe if you spent less time talking out of your rear, and more time paying attention you would notice these things If you wish to engage in a back and forth discussion, try to keep from injecting derogatory comments, they serve no purpose other than to insult.
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Post by frozendisc on May 22, 2019 6:46:49 GMT -7
So is it system, or coaching....... It's everything. It's system, coaching, and players. And it starts with situational football. Given different down/distance... the system changes. It takes coaching to recognize the system needs for that particular situation and get them ready to fill that particular role... 3-4 vs 4-3, pass rushers vs run stoppers. And then you have to have the players to fit those various system needs. Look at each position on defense. Various skills/sizes along the DL and LB's. And they put a premium on DB's that can cover. We have DL that is better against the pass than the run (now that Tillery is here and Luiget is gone). We have smallish LB's that are better pass defenders than run stoppers. We will be weak against the run this year. On offense, our OL is suited to run but is weak in pass blocking. Meanwhile, the Patriots have OL that is good at both pass blocking and run blocking. Makes them more balanced on offense and harder to defend. The one thing that often goes un-noticed is the fact that they finish in the top-10 in run attempts almost every year. Their run game compliments their passing game. Just look at their offensive picks this year. WR in the 1st. RB and OT in the 3rd. OG in the 4th. They place a premium on their OL and make sure that, even during injury, their OL positions are deep and versatile. OL is the engine that makes the whole offense go. So in answer to my question of 'system or coaching', this is the closest response to what I think is the aspect that separates NE from most other teams. Personally, I think the answer is expectations...or a culture of expectations about commitment to team and process. BB gets players to play above their talent level because of the history, culture and expectations found in their organization and all of the winning. Simply put, players believe.... Do they need talent, absolutely, do they need solid coaching, yep.....but that comes after the commitment to the culture of team first is present.
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Post by sonorajim on May 22, 2019 10:27:28 GMT -7
In the 2018 reg season NE gave up 27.4 more ypg than the Chargers. NE gave up 0.3 points pg fewer than LAC. LAC had the better W-L reg season. NE was better in the post season. AL's Chargers were in their rookie appearance. NE got a bye week in a weaker Div. Down a significant group of defenders we played a brilliant defensive game vs Bal and laid all our cards face up for BB. Too bad for us. NE surgically shredded our improvised 4-1-6. I strongly hope to meet them again in the coming post season.
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Post by chargerfreak on May 22, 2019 10:41:04 GMT -7
In the 2018 reg season NE gave up 27.4 more ypg than the Chargers. NE gave up 0.3 points pg fewer than LAC. LAC had the better W-L reg season. NE was better in the post season. AL's Chargers were in their rookie appearance. NE got a bye week in a weaker Div. Down a significant group of defenders we played a brilliant defensive game vs Bal and laid all our cards face up for BB. Too bad for us. NE surgically shredded our improvised 4-1-6. I strongly hope to meet them again in the coming post season.Well the hades I don't !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give me the Jets or the Bills or something for crying out loud !
"Strongly hope we blah blah...." Yeah, how about no thanks if we can avoid it. Let's go with that plan.
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Post by frozendisc on May 22, 2019 11:26:04 GMT -7
In the 2018 reg season NE gave up 27.4 more ypg than the Chargers. NE gave up 0.3 points pg fewer than LAC. LAC had the better W-L reg season. NE was better in the post season. AL's Chargers were in their rookie appearance. NE got a bye week in a weaker Div. Down a significant group of defenders we played a brilliant defensive game vs Bal and laid all our cards face up for BB. Too bad for us. NE surgically shredded our improvised 4-1-6. I strongly hope to meet them again in the coming post season. Every year is a different year...... I never 'want' to meet any particular team, I just want to be still playing.
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xenos
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Post by xenos on May 22, 2019 16:11:36 GMT -7
That was last year. You know Frozen, maybe if you spent less time talking out of your rear, and more time paying attention you would notice these things If you wish to engage in a back and forth discussion, try to keep from injecting derogatory comments, they serve no purpose other than to insult. Frozen, if you cannot take the same jabs that you consistently give out to others, then maybe you should take a long look in the mirror at what the real problem is. In other words, going forward try to keep from injecting derogatory comments, they serve no purpose other than to insult.
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xenos
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Posts: 233
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Post by xenos on May 22, 2019 16:23:36 GMT -7
You wouldn't have guess this during the early parts of the 2014 season. If anything, BB has always been knocked for his drafting. He just does a much better job of coaching than the rest of the league currently. I don't know why you would say that... They had: 1st rounder at LT (Solder) 2nd Rounder at RT (Vollmer) And an under-rated back-up OT with 3 years of experience (6 games starting) in Marcus Cannon. They had proven guards Dan Connelly and Ryan Wendell (105 games started between the 2). A young Josh Kline (with 7 games played the year before) 4th round pick Cameron Fleming at G/C And had just drafted C Bryan Stork (2013 Remington Award winner) in the 4th round. Just because they were picked high did not mean that they were living up to their talent level or expectations. Yes, I know they won a Super Bowl that year. But there was a reason that Belichick convinced Scar to come out of retirement after 2015.
Edit: I do agree with you about the importance of the OL. Where we differ is certain things (like OT not being as important for Rivers as IOL), and that we have tried to invest in getting OL help for him via FA and the draft. It just took for the longest time for FA to work, and now we need the draft to work.
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