Chargers O-Line Thread

[boltnut]

I'm not even sure what this thread is about any more... but that's part of being Nutty...

[cthommes]

Jun 29, 2019 21:50:13 GMT -7 boltnut said:

I'm not even sure what this thread is about any more...

Basketball. I'm almost positive.

[chargerfreak]

Jun 29, 2019 9:45:01 GMT -7 sonorajim said:

Jun 28, 2019 9:16:17 GMT -7 chargerfreak said:

We in Canada know your American sick, twisted, and crude code words. Post Reported to the Embassy of Canada.

Your Highness, the peasants are starving! They have no bread!

Marie Antoinette: Let them eat cake!

Is cake cheaper than poutine ? It about has to be, eh ? 

[chargerfreak]

Jun 29, 2019 4:59:18 GMT -7 headtrip said:

Jun 29, 2019 4:28:04 GMT -7 chargerfreak said:

There is 14 teams in the top 5, because of identical records there Sunshine. The Saints and the Rams had 13 wins, etc. But, since you are too afraid to do my original pairings, it gets pretty stupid after that. 

For a suck team that I think has a chance to turn around this year I would guess San Fran. (Tampa Bay and Oakland ??)

For top teams, the Rams are bothering me and I don't know why. (KC).

There you go. 

If by 14, you mean 5. BWUAHAHAHAHA!! Come on, don't give up. I'll even let you choose any of the bottom 7 (which doesn't include either of the teams you named).

If any of Emperor Stinky Fingers' loyal smelly subjects want to help him out here, feel free.

(If you're actually interested, I've got Dallas, Green Bay, Balt, then San Fran. Just don't tell anyone. Gotta keep up the mystique.)

That's a tough group right there to have to pick in order. That's why I listed them. Better conversation. Dallas division is always tight, and Philly is in it. Green Bay has Chicago, Minn, and a new HC. Balt. is in with Pittsburgh and Cleveland. My team to watch for improvement this year is San Fran. Healthy Garoppolo. 

[headtrip]

Jun 30, 2019 3:50:49 GMT -7 chargerfreak said:

Jun 29, 2019 4:59:18 GMT -7 headtrip said:

If by 14, you mean 5. BWUAHAHAHAHA!! Come on, don't give up. I'll even let you choose any of the bottom 7 (which doesn't include either of the teams you named).

If any of Emperor Stinky Fingers' loyal smelly subjects want to help him out here, feel free.

(If you're actually interested, I've got Dallas, Green Bay, Balt, then San Fran. Just don't tell anyone. Gotta keep up the mystique.)

That's a tough group right there to have to pick in order. That's why I listed them. Better conversation. Dallas division is always tight, and Philly is in it. Green Bay has Chicago, Minn, and a new HC. Balt. is in with Pittsburgh and Cleveland. My team to watch for improvement this year is San Fran. Healthy Garoppolo. 

San Fran flashed a bit with Jimmy G, but they are still a team full of unknowns coming off a disastrous year. Ari figures to remain a steaming pile of losses, but Sea and LAR are tall hurdles. Balt's season hinges weightily upon Jackson's improvement in the passing game. That ridiculous ground game has been exposed courtesy of your LAC. He's got a very long way to go. GB has Rodgers who can get 6 wins without giving a poop, I'll take that floor. For the wins, not the poop. DAL has enormous offensive potential. They will win some games 28-13 by doubling up opponents in TOP.

And if all else fails, I shall place a large wager against myself, thus ensuring my initial predictions.

[frozendisc]

Jun 30, 2019 3:43:43 GMT -7 chargerfreak said:

Jun 29, 2019 9:45:01 GMT -7 sonorajim said:

Your Highness, the peasants are starving! They have no bread!

Marie Antoinette: Let them eat cake!

Is cake cheaper than poutine ? It about has to be, eh ? 

Poutine, with a big pile of smoked meats......three breakfast stout beers......and a nice nap.  

I am ready for the big day tomorrow......

Marie never said anything about letting the peasants eat cake, and why would she, they were peasants and as such, would not have appreciated the quality of the cake.

[Chargeroo]

Jun 30, 2019 3:50:49 GMT -7 chargerfreak said:

Jun 29, 2019 4:59:18 GMT -7 headtrip said:

If by 14, you mean 5. BWUAHAHAHAHA!! Come on, don't give up. I'll even let you choose any of the bottom 7 (which doesn't include either of the teams you named).

If any of Emperor Stinky Fingers' loyal smelly subjects want to help him out here, feel free.

(If you're actually interested, I've got Dallas, Green Bay, Balt, then San Fran. Just don't tell anyone. Gotta keep up the mystique.)

That's a tough group right there to have to pick in order. That's why I listed them. Better conversation. Dallas division is always tight, and Philly is in it. Green Bay has Chicago, Minn, and a new HC. Balt. is in with Pittsburgh and Cleveland. My team to watch for improvement this year is San Fran. Healthy Garoppolo. 

I agree - not just because of Jimmy but also that DL. Tough division but they'll be in the hunt this year.

[chargerfreak]

Jun 30, 2019 11:39:44 GMT -7 headtrip said:

Jun 30, 2019 3:50:49 GMT -7 chargerfreak said:

That's a tough group right there to have to pick in order. That's why I listed them. Better conversation. Dallas division is always tight, and Philly is in it. Green Bay has Chicago, Minn, and a new HC. Balt. is in with Pittsburgh and Cleveland. My team to watch for improvement this year is San Fran. Healthy Garoppolo. 

San Fran flashed a bit with Jimmy G, but they are still a team full of unknowns coming off a disastrous year. Ari figures to remain a steaming pile of losses, but Sea and LAR are tall hurdles. Balt's season hinges weightily upon Jackson's improvement in the passing game. That ridiculous ground game has been exposed courtesy of your LAC. He's got a very long way to go. GB has Rodgers who can get 6 wins without giving a poop, I'll take that floor. For the wins, not the poop. DAL has enormous offensive potential. They will win some games 28-13 by doubling up opponents in TOP.

And if all else fails, I shall place a large wager against myself, thus ensuring my initial predictions.

Because of years of sucking, they have drafted early every round. A healthy Garoppolo, and I'll take over the ceiling of 6 wins. 

Cleveland and Pitt will chase Balt. hard for division crown this year. Refreshing that the division got tough. 

Rodgers has GB in every game, every time. 

I would not dismiss Carson Wentz and Philly in Dallas' division. 

[xenos]

An OL debate, that includes some transcript. I do wonder if we are a hybrid offense like Indy (one that utilizes quick striker but also like to go vertical ala Air Coryell).

www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/02/top-offensive-linemen-tackles-centers-guards-ot-ol-zack-martin-david-bakhtiari-podcast

GARY: The question we’ll start with is this: Do you need to invest big to get star, headlining offensive lineman in the NFL? Or is the goal more—and we've talked about this a little bit over the years—just to get an offensive line that isn’t disastrously bad, that is simply good enough to allow you to function?

ANDY: Yeah, we’ve gone over this before and it’s a moving argument. I think a lot of it begins with who you have at quarterback and how you play—every offense takes on the shape of its quarterback. If you have a guy who’s getting the ball out quickly, if you’re the New England Patriots, for example, you don’t need to re-sign Nate Solder for top-end money, or Trent Brown for top-end money. You can get by with mid-round draft picks, or even an undrafted center like David Andrews, who’s gotten a lot better over time because you have a quarterback that controls the protections and gets the ball out on three- and five-step timing pretty often. But if you're the Philadelphia Eagles, for example, and theirs is kind of a quick-strike offense, but Carson Wentz tends to play late into the down within the pocket. Then it’s a different conversation. The Eagles have a lot of good offensive linemen.

ANDY: The one that complicates it for me, Gary, is the Indianapolis Colts. They are kind of somewhere in between—they've got the superstar QB, they get the ball out quickly, and yet they invested heavily in their offensive line. And I thought that was overkill. I didn't love the Quenton Nelson pick because I thought they needed more help on defense and Luck could compensate for a bad line. But there's no doubt that that offensive line in Indianapolis was the biggest reason that team looked like a contender last year, which means I was wrong about Nelson and wrong about the approach. Investing in the O-line helped them a lot. So I don’t know where I stand on this now.

GARY: And just to be clear, conceptually you didn’t like the Nelson pick, Andy. You didn’t like the Colts taking an offensive lineman. I just wanted to point that out before this turns into another out-of-context 20-second Twitter clip.

ANDY: I was fine with Nelson, the linemen that they took, but I didn't like them taking a lineman in general at that pick. And again, I was more than wrong about that one.
GARY: So to me I think at this point investing in a great offensive line and trying to build a “good enough” offensive line is almost the same thing. That “good enough” line costs big money at this point. Nate Solder isn’t a game-changing tackle, but he was solid in New England—a little less than that in his first year in New York—and look what they had to pay for him. You can go back to the Vikings signing Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers—Remmers is probably a swing tackle. But they had to pay those guys big money.

ANDY: And Remmers was a disaster, so they wound up getting rid of him and now they’re trying it all over again with Josh Kline. But it’s like you said with Solder, the left tackles not a game changer. The problem I’ve had for a long time, and I'm just having a conversation now, is: Name one tackle that is a game-changer. Because you can’t really do much to scheme with your offensive line unless you are a super run-heavy team, and there are more teams starting to do that again. Dallas, Baltimore, all those teams should be investing in offensive linemen. But for the most part it’s a quick-strike passing NFL, and you can’t gain an advantage with your offensive linemen. All they are are insurance policies, for their pass protection. And they’re really expensive insurance policies.

GARY: Well, I would have answered your question with Tyron Smith. I would also, I guess, point out that if you look at the Texans—and it’s obvious to see the problems on their offensive line because they gave up the most sacks in football last year—but their offensive line was so bad that it changed the way they played.

ANDY: Yes, they had to accommodate it with keeping an extra blocker in, which now you’re changing your offense to make up for the fact that you don’t have five guys who can block. And your quarterback, in his second year I thought took a step back at times because he didn't trust is offensive line. Deshaun Watson played a little bit rushed in the pocket, he held the ball at times, and it's partly because the guys who would have been his eligible receivers were staying in and blocking and helping those offensive linemen who struggled. It’s like you almost need a sweet spot, like if you were to give a letter grade and C is an average offensive line, and A is a Pro Bowl offensive line, you need at least a B to run your offense.

GARY: And I feel like you have to built it through the draft at this point, almost more than any other position.

ANDY: Here’s the challenge that comes with that. Let’s say the lineman is talented but he’s not quite ready to play mentally. Well, you can’t have that at the offensive line. You have to react to immediate pressure and pressure designs, and defensive fronts are getting more creative by the week in the NFL. It takes a lot of intelligence to play offensive line. There was a stereotype many years ago that it was just big dumb meatheads, but offensive linemen, next to quarterbacks, they're the smartest players on the field almost always. Especially as you move inside, the center position and even some of the guard positions where you get a lot of bodies around you.

ANDY: So yeah, you draft them because they’re so expensive in free agency, which is happening at other positions. But you’ve got to have a guy that can also be counted on, mentally, right now. And you know what, Gary, there's a reason offensive line coaches tend to be the highest-paid assistants on every staff, next to coordinators. And there's a reason that once you’re an offensive line coach that’s pretty much where you stay, because when the team finds a good one, they grab on to that guy. You need teachers in that role.

[jean74]

Yeah as they will be the key if they end up in he Super Bowl. Protection a key.

[chargerfreak]

Jul 3, 2019 20:22:46 GMT -7 xenos said:

An OL debate, that includes some transcript. I do wonder if we are a hybrid offense like Indy (one that utilizes quick striker but also like to go vertical ala Air Coryell).

www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/02/top-offensive-linemen-tackles-centers-guards-ot-ol-zack-martin-david-bakhtiari-podcast

"they get the ball out quickly, and yet they invested heavily in their offensive line. And I thought that was overkill. I didn't love the Quenton Nelson pick because I thought they needed more help on defense and Luck could compensate for a bad line."

1. I don't think he gets the ball out THAT fast.

2. Regardless, he was getting freaking killed back there. Oline was a must in Indy. Now, the line is young, and very talented. They look like a choreography out there. Great coaching.

[woodeye]

Sharing thoughts from an alternative universe...

I went back and looked at predraft thoughts regarding offensive tackle.

My conclusion is that none of offensive tackles we as fans wanted were as good of scheme fits as Trey Pipkins.

Pipkins has the prerequisite athleticism to excel out in space, ala Sam Tevi.

It is the reoccurrence of a common theme...we as fans love to second guess our decision makers when in reality we lack the depth of knowledge needed.

Outside of a trade up, the moves have not been there for us.

To illustrate what I am saying, in the 2019 Draft, the Chargers have said two offensive tackles interested them early, Jonah Williams and Andre Dillard...no one else.

Greg Little: excellent at mirroring opponents, but the antithesis of a strike early, Pat Meyer offensive tackle.

Jawaan Taylor: bad knee aside, he's an offensive guard in our scheme.

Dalton Risner: carbon copy of Feeney, Lamp, lacking in offensive tackle athleticism for our system.

Tyrus Howard: HOU took him too early, bad fit for us in terms of skillset, red flags.

There's others.

My guess is Okung will be fine.

OKUNG-FEENEY-POUNCEY-LAMP-TEVI

Patience...think of CBA slowing development of Olinemen due to practising rules...think of year 3 benefits of same Pat Meyer coaching...think of scarcity.

[Chargeroo]

Thanks for sharing that. It's good to see you post something after your long absence. Happy Independence Day to you. For what it's worth, I agree with your guess of the starting five;
OKUNG-FEENEY-POUNCEY-LAMP-TEVI

[totallybolted]

Jul 3, 2019 20:22:46 GMT -7 xenos said:

An OL debate, that includes some transcript. I do wonder if we are a hybrid offense like Indy (one that utilizes quick striker but also like to go vertical ala Air Coryell).

www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/02/top-offensive-linemen-tackles-centers-guards-ot-ol-zack-martin-david-bakhtiari-podcast

If the OL was as bad as some think, then PR takes a huge amount of credit for the teams success.  If the line is even 10% better than last year, seems to me this team is looking at another 12-14 win season.

[sonorajim]

Jul 4, 2019 9:08:32 GMT -7 totallybolted said:

Jul 3, 2019 20:22:46 GMT -7 xenos said:

An OL debate, that includes some transcript. I do wonder if we are a hybrid offense like Indy (one that utilizes quick striker but also like to go vertical ala Air Coryell).

www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/02/top-offensive-linemen-tackles-centers-guards-ot-ol-zack-martin-david-bakhtiari-podcast

If the OL was as bad as some think, then PR takes a huge amount of credit for the teams success.  If the line is even 10% better than last year, seems to me this team is looking at another 12-14 win season.

Rivers does deserve a lot of  credit regards our offense/OL success. The coaches & OL personnel deserve a nod also. They all had their good moments collectively and individually.

PR will be back & our QB depth is much improved. We could play solid offense in 2019 with last year's OL.

This isn't last year though.

3rd year OLs Tevi & Feeney almost certainly will have learned a few things that will help them in this season. Lamp brings a new level of athleticism and Pouncey will  have greater familiarity with PR, the coaches, players & system. Pipkins is interesting OT depth. LAC seems to believe that they drafted a 3rd rd gem but would like to bring him along gradually. We'll just have to wait & see how that plays out. The wait may not be as long as some have projected.

..And don't forget our D. If they prove to be as good as they look, the O will be getting more & better opportunities and playing very confidently. It should be fun.