|
|
Post by joemcrugby on Feb 5, 2021 19:54:02 GMT -7
5) invest heavily on offensive line early in the draft, I’d like to see the first 4 picks include a OT, TE, C/G, and a CB. Edge depth in this draft is great so a really good one can be found in round 4. Round 5 we should consider drafting a new kicker. Then 6-7 add depth at ILB, S, and O-line again. Keep in mind we’ll already be shedding D-line to switch defensive scheme so I don’t think they’ll draft one in a year that’s thin at interior D-line where teams will be reaching and drafting them higher than they should. If we land the right TE in rounds 1 or 2 then trading or keeping Hunter just one more year becomes plausible. If rounds 1-4 are used as stated above, OT, TE, C/G, and a CB, then you are not getting a "Edge depth in this draft is great so a really good one can be found in round 4"...... You don't want to pay MW 15 million, but would tag HH again. You know what that would cost? I agree with TB, just make a decision, sign him or move on. According to the FT formula it would cost about 12m to tag Henry for 2021. I don’t believe the Chargers will necessarily have to make that choice but if I had to choose between carrying HH for 12m or paying MW 15.68m for one season, I go with Henry and I don’t even look back. It’s much more difficult to replace Henry’s production at TE than Mike William’s production at receiver. Even if they extend Henry I still think they need to draft another TE with one of the first 4 picks. Green might not be back as well. MW I love, it’s hard not to, but he has not grown his game 4 years in the league and still plays like he did in year 1. This year because of the lack of growth of the cap there will be much less expensive veteran options on the street that already have polished their skills beyond what Mike has. This will be a great year to get one of those guys on a 1-2 year for maybe 50% less than Mike’s 5th year option. Herbert deserves a more reliable 3rd option than Williams. To be precise, I believe Henry a second time would mean that he’d get 120% of his 2020 franchise tag salary, so that would be $12,728,400 to be precise. I don’t know if I’d use the tag again in 2021. Perhaps let him test the market and see if they can get him on a multi year deal for less than that. If the market is too hot for him (and I don’t expect it to be red hot based on his injury history), then unfortunately I’d let him walk. MDub is a hard decision based on injury history, and I’m not sure which way they’ll go. |
|
|
|
Post by jwr10x on Feb 5, 2021 22:35:44 GMT -7
Maybe it's just me but I look at Henry and really don't see anything special, He is nowhere near even within blocks of the ballpark Kelce or Kittle are in. He has played 4 seasons averaged 50 catches and 5 td's and less than 600 yds per. I would let him walk and use the money to fill other spots.
|
|
|
|
Post by fouts2herbert on Feb 6, 2021 8:01:31 GMT -7
I don’t know if I’d use the tag again in 2021. Perhaps let him test the market and see if they can get him on a multi year deal for less than that. If the market is too hot for him (and I don’t expect it to be red hot based on his injury history), then unfortunately I’d let him walk. MDub is a hard decision based on injury history, and I’m not sure which way they’ll go. The market for Henry will be red hot, even though he hasn’t been the most proficient/willing blocker, he is definitely a guy that teams have to game plan for in the passing game and that opens up and creates opportunities for other players on offense. The cap might be down but the top free agents will still get top dollar, it’s the rest of the guys that’ll get lowballed on 1 year deals. Henry is not only the most qualified TE set to hit the market, he’s also the youngest so people will roll the dice on the injury thing. If they don’t tag Henry, he’ll be wearing a Patriot uniform in 2021. I’d like to think the Spanos are done being Kraft’s farm team considering the long line of former Chargers that have been poached by NE. why, why let Henry walk and not control the value he has? Depending on what the Chargers plans are in FA this year, there is no guarantee they receive a comp for him in 2022. So even if they don’t plan to sign him long term, paying him the 12.8m for one season while developing his replacement seems like the prudent thing to do. Tagging him gives the Chargers more flexibility in how they approach FA. A potential compensatory pick in the 2022 draft or another year like the one Henry had last year? I’d settle for last years numbers considering how difficult it is to find competent TEs. Even if they tag him just to trade him at the very least it gives the front office guaranteed draft capital THIS year. Draft picks are more valuable this year than in years past with all the uncertainty surrounding the cap in 2021 and NFL media deals going forward. Mike Williams unfortunately will most likely be cut, replacing and even upgrading his production would be much easier to do than with Henry. Every year is different bit this year Henrry vs Williams is a no contest, Henry is still worth the 12.7m and as for Williams, it’s hard yo argue he is worth the 15.68m.
|
|
|
|
Post by fouts2herbert on Feb 6, 2021 8:09:29 GMT -7
Maybe it's just me but I look at Henry and really don't see anything special, He is nowhere near even within blocks of the ballpark Kelce or Kittle are in. He has played 4 seasons averaged 50 catches and 5 td's and less than 600 yds per. I would let him walk and use the money to fill other spots. From a Chargers fan POV it’s easy to get carried away with expectations from the TE perspective, we’ve had Winslow and Gates, two of the best ever at the position. It’s like talking bad about pupunu or holohan because they are not up there with the other guys. Henry fits somewhere in the middle, he’s a weapon on offense, teams have to game plan for him. Comparing Henry to the best TEs playing in the league right now is just not realistic. TE talents like kittle and kelce are the gates, winslows, gonzales, gronks, and wittens of their generation. Compare Henry against the rest of the TEs in the NFL and he comes out looking pretty good.
|
|
|
|
Post by ohioboltfan on Feb 6, 2021 10:28:34 GMT -7
Maybe it's just me but I look at Henry and really don't see anything special, He is nowhere near even within blocks of the ballpark Kelce or Kittle are in. He has played 4 seasons averaged 50 catches and 5 td's and less than 600 yds per. I would let him walk and use the money to fill other spots. From a Chargers fan POV it’s easy to get carried away with expectations from the TE perspective, we’ve had Winslow and Gates, two of the best ever at the position. It’s like talking bad about pupunu or holohan because they are not up there with the other guys. Henry fits somewhere in the middle, he’s a weapon on offense, teams have to game plan for him. Comparing Henry to the best TEs playing in the league right now is just not realistic. TE talents like kittle and kelce are the gates, winslows, gonzales, gronks, and wittens of their generation. Compare Henry against the rest of the TEs in the NFL and he comes out looking pretty good. If Hunter Henry was in the Elite tier, no one would hesitate signing him to a top-dollar deal. But I agree with jwr10x in that Henry has been an above average- let's make it a GOOD- Tight End, but he's really not in the spectacular, irreplaceable category. For comparison, Kittle had more receiving yards than HH did but played in SIX less games this year and Kelce had 800 more yards than HH (but he did play ONE more game than HH). I'd love to have Hunter Henry back on the Chargers, but not if we'd have to overpay for him. If another team offers 10+ million, I won't blame HH for taking their money- it's a business! But it's also a business for the team, and the Chargers have more pressing needs to spend their cap money on, especially when Henry's production can be matched by other TEs on the roster now, or veteran free agents, or even a rookie.
|
|
|
|
Post by jwr10x on Feb 6, 2021 10:28:48 GMT -7
Maybe it's just me but I look at Henry and really don't see anything special, He is nowhere near even within blocks of the ballpark Kelce or Kittle are in. He has played 4 seasons averaged 50 catches and 5 td's and less than 600 yds per. I would let him walk and use the money to fill other spots. From a Chargers fan POV it’s easy to get carried away with expectations from the TE perspective, we’ve had Winslow and Gates, two of the best ever at the position. It’s like talking bad about pupunu or holohan because they are not up there with the other guys. Henry fits somewhere in the middle, he’s a weapon on offense, teams have to game plan for him. Comparing Henry to the best TEs playing in the league right now is just not realistic. TE talents like kittle and kelce are the gates, winslows, gonzales, gronks, and wittens of their generation. Compare Henry against the rest of the TEs in the NFL and he comes out looking pretty good. Problem is he is at the price point that puts him near the best Kelce is making $14,312 mil Kittle 16 mil Henry at a a franchise tag of 12 mil is not worth the production. While a good piece he is not elite nor a player an opposing D must game plan around. Parham and Anderson can replace him at a fraction of the cost and they can use the savings on a decent free agent OL or Edge.
|
|
|
|
Post by totallybolted on Feb 6, 2021 13:00:35 GMT -7
Maybe it's just me but I look at Henry and really don't see anything special, He is nowhere near even within blocks of the ballpark Kelce or Kittle are in. He has played 4 seasons averaged 50 catches and 5 td's and less than 600 yds per. I would let him walk and use the money to fill other spots. From a Chargers fan POV it’s easy to get carried away with expectations from the TE perspective, we’ve had Winslow and Gates, two of the best ever at the position. It’s like talking bad about pupunu or holohan because they are not up there with the other guys. Henry fits somewhere in the middle, he’s a weapon on offense, teams have to game plan for him. Comparing Henry to the best TEs playing in the league right now is just not realistic. TE talents like kittle and kelce are the gates, winslows, gonzales, gronks, and wittens of their generation. Compare Henry against the rest of the TEs in the NFL and he comes out looking pretty good. To be fair, when HH first came onto the bolts, Gates was at the end of his carreer and I think a lot of people looked to him to pick up where Gates left off. The word was, he had the talent to be that good. So I wonder a bit if part of the critic on HH, is from the prior expectation
|
|
|
|
Post by totallybolted on Feb 6, 2021 13:06:20 GMT -7
From a Chargers fan POV it’s easy to get carried away with expectations from the TE perspective, we’ve had Winslow and Gates, two of the best ever at the position. It’s like talking bad about pupunu or holohan because they are not up there with the other guys. Henry fits somewhere in the middle, he’s a weapon on offense, teams have to game plan for him. Comparing Henry to the best TEs playing in the league right now is just not realistic. TE talents like kittle and kelce are the gates, winslows, gonzales, gronks, and wittens of their generation. Compare Henry against the rest of the TEs in the NFL and he comes out looking pretty good. To be fair, when HH first came onto the bolts, Gates was at the end of his carreer and I think a lot of people looked to him to pick up where Gates left off. The word was, he had the talent to be that good. So I wonder a bit if part of the critic on HH, is from the prior expectation Actually, thinking about this a little more. PR and Gates combo was down right unstoppable at times. Those tow had a tremendous connection. Gates was PR got to guy. HH was never given that opportunity with PR. He had KA. Through in a couch change who wants to run, which turns TE into blockers, and he is just not going to appear as productive. that said, if he was really good, he would of been able to rise above that IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by afboltfan on Feb 6, 2021 14:51:11 GMT -7
/agreed
Comparing HH to some of the elite TE's in the league is a bit unfair...
|
|
|
|
Post by frozendisc on Feb 6, 2021 20:01:48 GMT -7
5) invest heavily on offensive line early in the draft, I’d like to see the first 4 picks include a OT, TE, C/G, and a CB. Edge depth in this draft is great so a really good one can be found in round 4. Round 5 we should consider drafting a new kicker. Then 6-7 add depth at ILB, S, and O-line again. Keep in mind we’ll already be shedding D-line to switch defensive scheme so I don’t think they’ll draft one in a year that’s thin at interior D-line where teams will be reaching and drafting them higher than they should. If we land the right TE in rounds 1 or 2 then trading or keeping Hunter just one more year becomes plausible. If rounds 1-4 are used as stated above, OT, TE, C/G, and a CB, then you are not getting a "Edge depth in this draft is great so a really good one can be found in round 4"...... You don't want to pay MW 15 million, but would tag HH again. You know what that would cost? I agree with TB, just make a decision, sign him or move on. According to the FT formula it would cost about 12m to tag Henry for 2021. I don’t believe the Chargers will necessarily have to make that choice but if I had to choose between carrying HH for 12m or paying MW 15.68m for one season, I go with Henry and I don’t even look back. It’s much more difficult to replace Henry’s production at TE than Mike William’s production at receiver. Even if they extend Henry I still think they need to draft another TE with one of the first 4 picks. Green might not be back as well. MW I love, it’s hard not to, but he has not grown his game 4 years in the league and still plays like he did in year 1. This year because of the lack of growth of the cap there will be much less expensive veteran options on the street that already have polished their skills beyond what Mike has. This will be a great year to get one of those guys on a 1-2 year for maybe 50% less than Mike’s 5th year option. Herbert deserves a more reliable 3rd option than Williams. My point with HH was why kick the can down the road, simply make a decision. Personally I would get a new deal done, keeping him around for the next 3-5 years. Never understood the hate for MW with Charger fans, but keeping him is an easy yes. His game is exactly what he was drafted for, big body go up and get it WR. Nice dream, but those 'polished' veteran WR's are not signing for 7 to 8 million over two years.......3.5 to 4 mil a year.....not happening. Herbert 'deserves' just cracks me up. TT puts together the best roster he can, Staley will coach to win the most games he can, and none of that has anything to do with getting Herbert what he 'deserves'......that viewpoint is completely based in a fans world.
|
|
|
|
Post by jwr10x on Feb 6, 2021 20:45:06 GMT -7
/agreed Comparing HH to some of the elite TE's in the league is a bit unfair... True but when his pay rate to resign him approaches the level of the elites and he does not have nor show the ability to be in the elite class is why I say let him go. It's just smart cap management.
|
|
|
|
Post by fouts2herbert on Feb 6, 2021 21:36:49 GMT -7
My point with HH was why kick the can down the road, simply make a decision. Personally I would get a new deal done, keeping him around for the next 3-5 years. Never understood the hate for MW with Charger fans, but keeping him is an easy yes. His game is exactly what he was drafted for, big body go up and get it WR. Nice dream, but those 'polished' veteran WR's are not signing for 7 to 8 million over two years.......3.5 to 4 mil a year.....not happening. Herbert 'deserves' just cracks me up. TT puts together the best roster he can, Staley will coach to win the most games he can, and none of that has anything to do with getting Herbert what he 'deserves'......that viewpoint is completely based in a fans world. Yes, a fan is all I’ve ever been and will ever be, I have no professional experience of any kind and I will never claim otherwise. So absolutely, my opinions and observations are very flawed and limited because I live in a fans world on the outside looking in. I read the same stuff that’s available to everyone and I have no inside information of any kind. as for ‘hating’ Mike Williams, even in the post you quoted I wrote that I love the kid and I think I wrote that in another previous post too. I genuinely enjoy watching him too, but I wish he was more like Kennan Allen and maybe it’s unfair to hold him to that standard. Allen is a perfectionist and is constantly striving to perfect everything about his game. Mike is just not that ambitious, he’s perfectly happy to get by on his god given talent which is undeniably off the charts. Imagine for one second if Mike approached his craft the same way Kennan does, I think we’d be talking about him as one of the best players in the entire league.
|
|
|
|
Post by afboltfan on Feb 7, 2021 6:00:38 GMT -7
/agreed Comparing HH to some of the elite TE's in the league is a bit unfair... True but when his pay rate to resign him approaches the level of the elites and he does not have nor show the ability to be in the elite class is why I say let him go. It's just smart cap management.
Most def, he has to be retained at the right price.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdc on Feb 7, 2021 8:37:56 GMT -7
/agreed Comparing HH to some of the elite TE's in the league is a bit unfair... Which is why you don't pay him like one.
|
|
|
|
Post by frozendisc on Feb 7, 2021 8:47:05 GMT -7
Never understood the hate for MW with Charger fans, but keeping him is an easy yes. His game is exactly what he was drafted for, big body go up and get it WR. Nice dream, but those 'polished' veteran WR's are not signing for 7 to 8 million over two years.......3.5 to 4 mil a year.....not happening. Herbert 'deserves' just cracks me up. TT puts together the best roster he can, Staley will coach to win the most games he can, and none of that has anything to do with getting Herbert what he 'deserves'......that viewpoint is completely based in a fans world. Yes, a fan is all I’ve ever been and will ever be, I have no professional experience of any kind and I will never claim otherwise. So absolutely, my opinions and observations are very flawed and limited because I live in a fans world on the outside looking in. I read the same stuff that’s available to everyone and I have no inside information of any kind. as for ‘hating’ Mike Williams, even in the post you quoted I wrote that I love the kid and I think I wrote that in another previous post too. I genuinely enjoy watching him too, but I wish he was more like Kennan Allen and maybe it’s unfair to hold him to that standard. Allen is a perfectionist and is constantly striving to perfect everything about his game. Mike is just not that ambitious, he’s perfectly happy to get by on his god given talent which is undeniably off the charts. Imagine for one second if Mike approached his craft the same way Kennan does, I think we’d be talking about him as one of the best players in the entire league. The 'flaw' has nothing to do with professional experience, or insider information, it is about believing the moves made by club has anything to do with getting any single player what they 'deserve'..... GM's make moves, as do HC's, to find success, which is usually defined as winning. Obviously GM's deal with long term fiscal decisions as well, such as managing player signings with regard to the cap, but even then it is all about positioning for success. I ask you this: When signing one of those polished WR's this next FA period, are you paying for the past, or the future? The MW comment wasn't specifically directed at you, much more of a general reflection about MW's time as a Bolt and how many Bolt fans are disappointed in him. It is unwise to forget that these players are humans, and as such bring differing personalities to the mix. I get you believe MW is lazy (I know you did not say that, but you certainly implied it), and think KA is the definition of driven, but trust me both players have had their moments.....both in the positive and negative. For me, I think of two words every time I see KA's name......talented and petulant.
|
|
