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Post by boltnut on Apr 15, 2019 12:25:18 GMT -7
We have 2 solid pass-rushing DE's in Bosa and Ingram. And Nwosu is pretty good rushing the QB from the SAM position. But against quick passing teams (NE) that outside pressure gets there too late. Understanding that, I agree that you have to bring pressure against those teams up the middle... quickly. And I agree that a MIKE could provide that pressure. Some will say that a 3-tech could bring that middle pressure. And I agree. But, you become weaker against the run with a 3-tech in there. My solution would be: Go to 3 down D-linemen. Go with Dexter as your NT, then put Bosa and Justin Jones as your 4-techs. You'd still be pretty solid vs the run as Dexter probably eats up two OL. That may give your blitzing ILB a clear run to the QB. LB's I see in this alignment are Perryman (run support ILB), designated blitzing ILB (Ingram/Brown?), White (WILL) and Davis (SAM) along with 2 CB's and 2 safeties. Would that work? Would we be strong vs. the run and the pass? Maybe we don't need to draft a good pass rushing ILB. Maybe we already have that player on the roster. Maybe we only need a good backup to the oft-injured Perryman...? It depends on the player at 3T. Among the DTs in this draft, Ed Oliver and Christian Wilkins have far better numbers at making tackles behind the LOS v ball carriers. Dex is a plugger that should, in theory control the A gap. He would relieve Mebane, play 3T on some downs, maybe pair with Mebane v obvious short yardage runs. Currently Justin Jones is our lone DT. I'd like to see us with a pair of mobile, young DTs who can crush the pocket & play the run. With Liuget, Philon, Square not on the roster, it's close to a lock that TT takes a 3T early. Maybe not 28, but early. 28 is likely. I don't see Oliver or Wilkins falling to #28. Neither does well in the run game when double teamed. We would be inviting the Patriots to run all over us again. Tackles for loss are great, but Wilkins benefitted greatly from playing next to Lawrence. Wilkins got the single team while Dexter drew the double team. Dexter created a pile, slowed the run game blocking scheme, allowed Wilkins to beat his slower guard opponent to the backside, and feast on backside tackles behind the LOS. Wilkins was not as good when they ran directly at him and away from Dexter. Watch the NC State game. If a pass rushing 3-tech is what they wanted, they would have kept Philon. Stack the 0/1-tech, occupy 2 OL, let your LB's/3-techs to shoot gaps/pursue, and keep those LB's clean. Lawrence kept Joeseph and Lamar clean consistently.
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Post by boltnut on Apr 15, 2019 12:31:09 GMT -7
Oliver is not dropping, Wilkins might, but my guess is nope......then you get the Lawrence, Tillery and a slew of others.....all of which might be around 2nd rd. With no Wilkins, DT will not happen at 28th I believe, much more likely 2nd-4th rds. 28th looks like WR, TE or CB to me..... Jeffery Simmons. A top DT talent, knee inj allegedly doing well. Beat up a girl who was attacking his sister in 2016, no other incidents since. Talent may prevail. Draft a guy with injury/character issues and waste one of the few remaining years PR has left...? Hard pass. Tough to sell "All-In" to fans, players, and PSL investors.
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 15, 2019 12:49:49 GMT -7
Can we ask for an accurate throwing Offensive Guard too ? Hitting the sauce a bit early aren't you ? Never too early. When is the draft so I can tell you who we are drafting.
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Post by frozendisc on Apr 15, 2019 14:08:08 GMT -7
Hitting the sauce a bit early aren't you ? Never too early. When is the draft so I can tell you who we are drafting. Looks like you will be drafting a goalie, as Murray has failure written all over his play.
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Post by NoMoreChillies on Apr 16, 2019 1:01:53 GMT -7
It depends on the player at 3T. Among the DTs in this draft, Ed Oliver and Christian Wilkins have far better numbers at making tackles behind the LOS v ball carriers. Dex is a plugger that should, in theory control the A gap. He would relieve Mebane, play 3T on some downs, maybe pair with Mebane v obvious short yardage runs. Currently Justin Jones is our lone DT. I'd like to see us with a pair of mobile, young DTs who can crush the pocket & play the run. With Liuget, Philon, Square not on the roster, it's close to a lock that TT takes a 3T early. Maybe not 28, but early. 28 is likely. I don't see Oliver or Wilkins falling to #28. Neither does well in the run game when double teamed. We would be inviting the Patriots to run all over us again. Tackles for loss are great, but Wilkins benefitted greatly from playing next to Lawrence. Wilkins got the single team while Dexter drew the double team. Dexter created a pile, slowed the run game blocking scheme, allowed Wilkins to beat his slower guard opponent to the backside, and feast on backside tackles behind the LOS. Wilkins was not as good when they ran directly at him and away from Dexter. Watch the NC State game. If a pass rushing 3-tech is what they wanted, they would have kept Philon. Stack the 0/1-tech, occupy 2 OL, let your LB's/3-techs to shoot gaps/pursue, and keep those LB's clean. Lawrence kept Joeseph and Lamar clean consistently. This is what i see when watching Clemson games. Dexter Lawrence would make Justin Jones look like Christian Wilkins. Who doesnt wanna see Perryman coming down into the hole to smash the RB instead of getting mauled by the LG?
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 16, 2019 3:13:45 GMT -7
I don't see Oliver or Wilkins falling to #28. Neither does well in the run game when double teamed. We would be inviting the Patriots to run all over us again. Tackles for loss are great, but Wilkins benefitted greatly from playing next to Lawrence. Wilkins got the single team while Dexter drew the double team. Dexter created a pile, slowed the run game blocking scheme, allowed Wilkins to beat his slower guard opponent to the backside, and feast on backside tackles behind the LOS. Wilkins was not as good when they ran directly at him and away from Dexter. Watch the NC State game. If a pass rushing 3-tech is what they wanted, they would have kept Philon. Stack the 0/1-tech, occupy 2 OL, let your LB's/3-techs to shoot gaps/pursue, and keep those LB's clean. Lawrence kept Joeseph and Lamar clean consistently. This is what i see when watching Clemson games. Dexter Lawrence would make Justin Jones look like Christian Wilkins. Who doesnt wanna see Perryman coming down into the hole to smash the RB instead of getting mauled by the LG? Who doesn't wanna see you on a 4 day ban for sick and depraved postings ? Post Reported to woodeye.
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Post by sonorajim on Apr 16, 2019 10:06:40 GMT -7
It depends on the player at 3T. Among the DTs in this draft, Ed Oliver and Christian Wilkins have far better numbers at making tackles behind the LOS v ball carriers. Dex is a plugger that should, in theory control the A gap. He would relieve Mebane, play 3T on some downs, maybe pair with Mebane v obvious short yardage runs. Currently Justin Jones is our lone DT. I'd like to see us with a pair of mobile, young DTs who can crush the pocket & play the run. With Liuget, Philon, Square not on the roster, it's close to a lock that TT takes a 3T early. Maybe not 28, but early. 28 is likely. I don't see Oliver or Wilkins falling to #28. Neither does well in the run game when double teamed. We would be inviting the Patriots to run all over us again. Tackles for loss are great, but Wilkins benefitted greatly from playing next to Lawrence. Wilkins got the single team while Dexter drew the double team. Dexter created a pile, slowed the run game blocking scheme, allowed Wilkins to beat his slower guard opponent to the backside, and feast on backside tackles behind the LOS. Wilkins was not as good when they ran directly at him and away from Dexter. Watch the NC State game. If a pass rushing 3-tech is what they wanted, they would have kept Philon. Stack the 0/1-tech, occupy 2 OL, let your LB's/3-techs to shoot gaps/pursue, and keep those LB's clean. Lawrence kept Joeseph and Lamar clean consistently.We need both NT & 3T. We have Mebane & Jones with McGill behind Mebane, a top guy moves Jones to #2. You think Philon is a top NFL 3T? Now that's funny.  He's a career backup. TT will take BPA at 28. A 2 down NT is an unlikely pick.
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 16, 2019 10:10:05 GMT -7
It depends on the player at 3T. Among the DTs in this draft, Ed Oliver and Christian Wilkins have far better numbers at making tackles behind the LOS v ball carriers. Dex is a plugger that should, in theory control the A gap. He would relieve Mebane, play 3T on some downs, maybe pair with Mebane v obvious short yardage runs. Currently Justin Jones is our lone DT. I'd like to see us with a pair of mobile, young DTs who can crush the pocket & play the run. With Liuget, Philon, Square not on the roster, it's close to a lock that TT takes a 3T early. Maybe not 28, but early. 28 is likely. I don't see Oliver or Wilkins falling to #28. Neither does well in the run game when double teamed. We would be inviting the Patriots to run all over us again. Tackles for loss are great, but Wilkins benefitted greatly from playing next to Lawrence. Wilkins got the single team while Dexter drew the double team. Dexter created a pile, slowed the run game blocking scheme, allowed Wilkins to beat his slower guard opponent to the backside, and feast on backside tackles behind the LOS. Wilkins was not as good when they ran directly at him and away from Dexter. Watch the NC State game. If a pass rushing 3-tech is what they wanted, they would have kept Philon. Stack the 0/1-tech, occupy 2 OL, let your LB's/3-techs to shoot gaps/pursue, and keep those LB's clean. Lawrence kept Joeseph and Lamar clean consistently. Just a fantastic take on "How good is Bob for DL. when he played on the best DL in all of college" ?
Thinking outside the box. Valid analysis. Nominated.
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Post by sonorajim on Apr 16, 2019 10:33:47 GMT -7
Without the baggage/inj, Simmons was a top 10 talent. The HS incident was singular. If his knee is good, he'd be an absolute steal at 28. But But But...... He might prove out to be an extraordinary talent, but he does have the issues you pointed out. As such, he goes 2nd rd...... Daniel Jeremiah tells us that he suspects a few years from now we will look back and he suspects that Simmons will have been the best player in the 2019 draft. Simmons film is very impressive. The issues are the only reason we may have the chance to take him. His team mates speak well of him, he interviews well and his knee appears to be coming along nicely. I'd take a close look, were I TT.
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Post by sonorajim on Apr 16, 2019 10:49:28 GMT -7
It depends on the player at 3T. Among the DTs in this draft, Ed Oliver and Christian Wilkins have far better numbers at making tackles behind the LOS v ball carriers. Dex is a plugger that should, in theory control the A gap. He would relieve Mebane, play 3T on some downs, maybe pair with Mebane v obvious short yardage runs. Currently Justin Jones is our lone DT. I'd like to see us with a pair of mobile, young DTs who can crush the pocket & play the run. With Liuget, Philon, Square not on the roster, it's close to a lock that TT takes a 3T early. Maybe not 28, but early. 28 is likely. I don't see Oliver or Wilkins falling to #28. Neither does well in the run game when double teamed. We would be inviting the Patriots to run all over us again. Tackles for loss are great, but Wilkins benefitted greatly from playing next to Lawrence. Wilkins got the single team while Dexter drew the double team. Dexter created a pile, slowed the run game blocking scheme, allowed Wilkins to beat his slower guard opponent to the backside, and feast on backside tackles behind the LOS. Wilkins was not as good when they ran directly at him and away from Dexter. Watch the NC State game. If a pass rushing 3-tech is what they wanted, they would have kept Philon. Stack the 0/1-tech, occupy 2 OL, let your LB's/3-techs to shoot gaps/pursue, and keep those LB's clean. Lawrence kept Joeseph and Lamar clean consistently. So the 3T ties up 2 blockers? Tying up double teams is Lawrence greatest strength. Ideally the two DTs in our 4 man front both get penetration, play behind the LOS run or pass and either make the tackle or free up DEs, LBs, DBs to make the play.
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Post by NoMoreChillies on Apr 16, 2019 22:04:44 GMT -7
This is what i see when watching Clemson games. Dexter Lawrence would make Justin Jones look like Christian Wilkins. Who doesnt wanna see Perryman coming down into the hole to smash the RB instead of getting mauled by the LG?Who doesn't wanna see you on a 4 day ban for sick and depraved postings ? Post Reported to woodeye. nothing but love
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Post by boltnut on Apr 16, 2019 23:54:07 GMT -7
If we draft Jeffery Simmons, he won't elevate anyone to anywhere. He'll be sitting in the training room come Sundays next season. The only thing elevated will be his swollen knee.
I never said Philon was a top 3-tech. I will point out that he's had 9.5 sacks over the last 2 years playing against NFL linemen, though. Simmons had 2 sacks last year vs college linemen.
And Dexter is not a 2-down lineman. He can play any down. In fact, I think he'd be great to have in during nickle/dime situations when we go with 3 down linemen. Often teams go with a NT and 2 DT's (playing 4-technique). BTW... Justin Jones is unproven (51.9 pff) and McGill is 299 lbs of below average (48.8) journeyman. I'd be pretty unhappy if we went into 2019 with an average 35-year-old Mebane, below average Jones/McGill, and an IR'd Simmons. That's just disaster waiting to happen. We wouldn't be protecting our smallish/old/injury-prone LB's at all. We need starting 1-tech now.
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Post by boltnut on Apr 17, 2019 0:22:52 GMT -7
I don't see Oliver or Wilkins falling to #28. Neither does well in the run game when double teamed. We would be inviting the Patriots to run all over us again. Tackles for loss are great, but Wilkins benefitted greatly from playing next to Lawrence. Wilkins got the single team while Dexter drew the double team. Dexter created a pile, slowed the run game blocking scheme, allowed Wilkins to beat his slower guard opponent to the backside, and feast on backside tackles behind the LOS. Wilkins was not as good when they ran directly at him and away from Dexter. Watch the NC State game. If a pass rushing 3-tech is what they wanted, they would have kept Philon. Stack the 0/1-tech, occupy 2 OL, let your LB's/3-techs to shoot gaps/pursue, and keep those LB's clean. Lawrence kept Joeseph and Lamar clean consistently. So the 3T ties up 2 blockers? Tying up double teams is Lawrence greatest strength. Ideally the two DTs in our 4 man front both get penetration, play behind the LOS run or pass and either make the tackle or free up DEs, LBs, DBs to make the play. Unfortunately, no. They don't tie up 2 blockers. They get double-teamed, turned, sealed, then the 2nd blocker quickly moves on to the next level. And before we get caught up in a "all Dexter does is tie up blockers" conversation... let's not fail to recognize that Dexter had 10 sacks in three seasons while Simmons was collecting 7 sacks.. And if you're looking for current DT's to "play behind the LOS run or pass".... I got bad news for you. Last year, Mebane, Jones, and McGill combined for 1.5 sacks, and 4 TFL... combined! The only thing these guys are "freeing up" are opposing teams' O-linemen. It's no wonder our LB's were all hurt last year.
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Post by chargerfreak on Apr 17, 2019 3:06:59 GMT -7
So the 3T ties up 2 blockers? Tying up double teams is Lawrence greatest strength. Ideally the two DTs in our 4 man front both get penetration, play behind the LOS run or pass and either make the tackle or free up DEs, LBs, DBs to make the play. Unfortunately, no. They don't tie up 2 blockers. They get double-teamed, turned, sealed, then the 2nd blocker quickly moves on to the next level. And before we get caught up in a "all Dexter does is tie up blockers" conversation... let's not fail to recognize that Dexter had 10 sacks in three seasons while Simmons was collecting 7 sacks.. And if you're looking for current DT's to "play behind the LOS run or pass".... I got bad news for you. Last year, Mebane, Jones, and McGill combined for 1.5 sacks, and 4 TFL... combined! The only thing these guys are "freeing up" are opposing teams' O-linemen. It's no wonder our LB's were all hurt last year. That's how you lay it down, folks. Approved for truth.
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Post by sonorajim on Apr 18, 2019 10:56:19 GMT -7
So the 3T ties up 2 blockers? Tying up double teams is Lawrence greatest strength. Ideally the two DTs in our 4 man front both get penetration, play behind the LOS run or pass and either make the tackle or free up DEs, LBs, DBs to make the play. Unfortunately, no. They don't tie up 2 blockers. They get double-teamed, turned, sealed, then the 2nd blocker quickly moves on to the next level. And before we get caught up in a "all Dexter does is tie up blockers" conversation... let's not fail to recognize that Dexter had 10 sacks in three seasons while Simmons was collecting 7 sacks.. And if you're looking for current DT's to "play behind the LOS run or pass".... I got bad news for you. Last year, Mebane, Jones, and McGill combined for 1.5 sacks, and 4 TFL... combined! The only thing these guys are "freeing up" are opposing teams' O-linemen. It's no wonder our LB's were all hurt last year. Exactly! Mebane, Jones and McGill were mauled by OL far too frequently. Liuget was our only decent 3T and that was when he was younger and healthy. We don't have a DT currently who plays consistently in the opponents backfield. Jones has some apparent potential that didn't materialize in 2018. We need a top 3T and a solid young NT. DTs who just wait for the play to come to them are too easily manipulated. The NFL has several top 3Ts that are very impactful. That isn't debatable. I'd like to have one.
Re Simmons, he might start the season on the bench. So what if he's an elite talent? We could use a top 3T for our playoff run. He should be in consideration. All that said, I don't dislike Dex. I just don't think he's going to be BPA for us at 28. Now if you can guarantee he'll be a Vince Wilfork clone? I couldn't turn his name in soon enough.
PS: I'm not looking primarily for sacks or TFLs from our DT pick, it's consistent play disruption right in the QBs face. DT sacks & TFLs are the bonus a great 3T gives you.
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He's a career backup. TT will take BPA at 28. A 2 down NT is an unlikely pick.