|
|
Post by joemcrugby on Mar 15, 2019 19:19:45 GMT -7
And you would refuse to offer him a multi-year deal??? No, I might go two years, but I need an out for year two. If they said no, then one year deal only..... And I'm willing to bet that's exactly what happened. People were asking "Why only a one-year deal?" I supplied them with the likely answer: AP and his agent were looking for more and didn't want to be locked into a multi-year deal even if there was more money upfront. For example (and I'm totally just throwing numbers out), say that he was offered the following: (1) 2-year deal for $8 million: $2 million signing bonus, first year salary of $3 million guaranteed and a second year at $3 million non-guaranteed - total guaranteed $5 million with a $4 million cap charge in 2019, versus (2) 1-year deal: $4 million guaranteed (regardless of how structured) - Option 1 gives AP $5 million guaranteed versus $4 million guaranteed, but locks him in for a second season. - Option 2 gives AP $4 million guaranteed but only locks him in for one season. You wouldn't make that multi-year offer and hope AP accepts it? And if AP and his agent didn't believe he is worth more, they wouldn't accept it? It has nothing to do with my overestimating AP's value to the Chargers: I believe that the Chargers made a multi-year offer to AP that offered more money upfront, but he and his agent declined because they believe he can get more after the 2019 season. Whether AP and his agent had a reasonable belief to you or I is inconsequential as to their decision making.
|
|
|
|
Post by frozendisc on Mar 15, 2019 19:22:02 GMT -7
Apparently, and the demand by others and us so recognized that. Everybody doesn’t run Gus D’s system. We do.....our offer wasn't off the charts.
|
|
|
|
Post by frozendisc on Mar 15, 2019 19:36:57 GMT -7
No, I might go two years, but I need an out for year two. If they said no, then one year deal only..... And I'm willing to bet that's exactly what happened. People were asking "Why only a one-year deal?" I supplied them with the likely answer: AP and his agent were looking for more and didn't want to be locked into a multi-year deal even if there was more money upfront. For example (and I'm totally just throwing numbers out), say that he was offered the following: (1) 2-year deal for $8 million: $2 million signing bonus, first year salary of $3 million guaranteed and a second year at $3 million non-guaranteed - total guaranteed $5 million with a $4 million cap charge in 2019, versus (2) 1-year deal: $4 million guaranteed (regardless of how structured) - Option 1 gives AP $5 million guaranteed versus $4 million guaranteed, but locks him in for a second season. - Option 2 gives AP $4 million guaranteed but only locks him in for one season. You wouldn't make that multi-year offer and hope AP accepts it? And if AP and his agent didn't believe he is worth more, they wouldn't accept it? It has nothing to do with my overestimating AP's value to the Chargers: I believe that the Chargers made a multi-year offer to AP that offered more money upfront, but he and his agent declined because they believe he can get more after the 2019 season. Whether AP and his agent had a reasonable belief to you or I is inconsequential as to their decision making. I don't know how to respond. Your examples are certainly reasonable examples. Would I make those offers, I don't know. I am not dialed in to the plan that the club certainly has, and approach on each player, so I can't say what they would do, or I.
|
|
|
|
Post by moekid on Mar 15, 2019 19:51:55 GMT -7
Everybody doesn’t run Gus D’s system. We do.....our offer wasn't off the charts. Yes, we are lucky. Not everybody runs this system so there wasn’t as competitve a market. He’s uniquely valuable to the Chargers and like I said earlier today underrated and undervalued by the rest of the league. Good break for us |
|
|
|
Post by joemcrugby on Mar 15, 2019 19:58:24 GMT -7
And I'm willing to bet that's exactly what happened. People were asking "Why only a one-year deal?" I supplied them with the likely answer: AP and his agent were looking for more and didn't want to be locked into a multi-year deal even if there was more money upfront. For example (and I'm totally just throwing numbers out), say that he was offered the following: (1) 2-year deal for $8 million: $2 million signing bonus, first year salary of $3 million guaranteed and a second year at $3 million non-guaranteed - total guaranteed $5 million with a $4 million cap charge in 2019, versus (2) 1-year deal: $4 million guaranteed (regardless of how structured) - Option 1 gives AP $5 million guaranteed versus $4 million guaranteed, but locks him in for a second season. - Option 2 gives AP $4 million guaranteed but only locks him in for one season. You wouldn't make that multi-year offer and hope AP accepts it? And if AP and his agent didn't believe he is worth more, they wouldn't accept it? It has nothing to do with my overestimating AP's value to the Chargers: I believe that the Chargers made a multi-year offer to AP that offered more money upfront, but he and his agent declined because they believe he can get more after the 2019 season. Whether AP and his agent had a reasonable belief to you or I is inconsequential as to their decision making. I don't know how to respond. Your examples are certainly reasonable examples. Would I make those offers, I don't know. I am not dialed in to the plan that the club certainly has, and approach on each player, so I can't say what they would do, or I. The one thing that I'm 100% certain of is that they did make a multi-year offer (it's a no-brainer in the non-guaranteed contracts in the NFL world), and they were rejected in favor of signing a one-year deal. I am nearly 100% certain that another team made at least a marginally better offer, but not nearly enough for AP to leave a place where he played the following number of defensive snaps (not including special teams) from Week 1 through the AFC Divisional Championship: 11 27 16 14 33 65 40 65 47 36 34 57 61 50 67 60 60 In addition to those numbers, he averaged well over 20 snaps per game as an All Pro special team player. I'm going way out on a limb here, but I am guesstimating that the Chargers offered him a multi-year deal, and they were rebuffed.
|
|
|
|
Post by frozendisc on Mar 15, 2019 20:01:53 GMT -7
We do.....our offer wasn't off the charts. Yes, we are lucky. Not everybody runs this system so there wasn’t as competitve a market. He’s uniquely valuable to the Chargers and like I said earlier today underrated and undervalued by the rest of the league. Good break for us I simply do not agree he is 'uniquely' valuable to the Bolts, as ST's players that are as good as him are valued by just about every team. Rarely do those ST's players get those big money/term contracts...... As a safety, he is nothing special, and being 28, special isn't in his future. Love him all you want, I am glad he is back also.
|
|
|
|
Post by moekid on Mar 15, 2019 20:02:48 GMT -7
Yes, we are lucky. Not everybody runs this system so there wasn’t as competitve a market. He’s uniquely valuable to the Chargers and like I said earlier today underrated and undervalued by the rest of the league. Good break for us I simply do not agree he is 'uniquely' valuable to the Bolts, as ST's players that are as good as him are valued by just about every team. Rarely do those ST's players get those big money/term contracts...... As a safety, he is nothing special, and being 28, special isn't in his future. Love him all you want, I am glad he is back also. Look at the above post by joe. He’s not just a special teams player. Obviously. |
|
|
|
Post by frozendisc on Mar 15, 2019 20:05:20 GMT -7
I simply do not agree he is 'uniquely' valuable to the Bolts, as ST's players that are as good as him are valued by just about every team. Rarely do those ST's players get those big money/term contracts...... As a safety, he is nothing special, and being 28, special isn't in his future. Love him all you want, I am glad he is back also. Look at the above post by joe. He’s not just a special teams player. Obviously. I get that he plays......you don't seem to get he plays like average talent. His value is his experience in the system, and his strong ST's play. TT needs to draft that safety that puts AP on the bench.
|
|
|
|
Post by joemcrugby on Mar 15, 2019 20:07:30 GMT -7
|
|
|
|
Post by joemcrugby on Mar 15, 2019 20:09:56 GMT -7
Look at the above post by joe. He’s not just a special teams player. Obviously. I get that he plays......you don't seem to get he plays like average talent. His value is his experience in the system, and his strong ST's play. TT needs to draft that safety that puts AP on the bench. AP needs to be in there on packages, not playing strong or free safety. Not as much as last year (hopefully, because his ultra-heavy workload was due to injuries), but he will still have a significant nickel-dime package role, and IMO we are fortunate that he has been retained for 2019.
|
|
|
|
Post by moekid on Mar 15, 2019 20:10:07 GMT -7
Look at the above post by joe. He’s not just a special teams player. Obviously. I get that he plays......you don't seem to get he plays like average talent. His value is his experience in the system, and his strong ST's play. TT needs to draft that safety that puts AP on the bench. You don’t understand what position he plays. If we draft a safety it’s gonna be a guy that plays single high. That’s not where Adrian plays. Do you know where he plays in our system? Do you understand that he didn’t play a traditional safety position and didn’t displace the other safeties? |
|
|
|
Post by frozendisc on Mar 15, 2019 20:16:58 GMT -7
I get that he plays......you don't seem to get he plays like average talent. His value is his experience in the system, and his strong ST's play. TT needs to draft that safety that puts AP on the bench. You don’t understand what position he plays. If we draft a safety it’s gonna be a guy that plays single high. That’s not where Adrian plays. Do you know where he plays in our system? Do you understand that he didn’t play a traditional safety position and didn’t displace the other safeties? I do understand that.
|
|
|
|
Post by woodeye on Mar 15, 2019 20:52:27 GMT -7
tu ne comprends pas...
|
|
xenos
Full Member
Posts: 233
|
Post by xenos on Mar 15, 2019 21:13:26 GMT -7
And he fills a unique role in Gus Bradley's defensive system.
It makes no sense for AP to leave if nobody is offering him starter money (and nobody obviously has), and next season will be his last chance to get a starter's contract from a gullible franchise (Raiduhs/Redskins et al. anybody???). If AP stays healthy, plays at a similar level in his different roles in 2019, and nobody is willing to throw him starter's money (I doubt that it will happen), then I can see him signing a multi-year deal with the Bolts in 2020 that gives him more upfront money but keeps him locked up for multiyears. He is no big player in Gus' defence, he is a big player in the ST's scheme. Nobody is going to offer him big money/term, he isn't talented enough, and will be 29.....it is a young mans game. Saying Adrian Phillips is just a ST player is like saying Desmond King is just a ST player. AP played a lot of snaps for the defense starting after the San Fran game.
|
|
|
|
Post by pacstud on Mar 15, 2019 22:02:05 GMT -7
AP wasn't just a safety. Outside of special teams, his biggest role was playing a hybrid LB / safety in Gus' defense. I don't see him as a starting safety either, but he and his agent are certainly looking to get somebody to bite on a starter-money contract before he approaches the 30-year-old mark. If nobody is willing to tender him a multi-year deal at the price that he's looking for following the 2019 season, I can see him being willing to sign a multi-year at a price that reflects his multi-task abilities. Nobody sees him as a stater at safety......he is a ST's player and a basic reserve player. Every team needs players like that, and I am glad we we signed him, but don't make the signing more than what it is. Who's doing that? Literally everyone is describing this the same way, and you are strawmanning everyone into "excitement" and "making too much". 
|
|
