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Post by frozendisc on Nov 24, 2023 19:55:31 GMT -7
My comment about 'fault' really is more about expectations of change moving forward. If J Spanos is actually making the decisions, and letting any fame or blame fall to TT as GM, then firing TT changes what for the organization? Might be the reason Staley has lasted this long, and the reason TT does not get fired. I do not know..... I always said TT is average to mediocre as a GM IMHO. What does firing TT change? No way to know that until a replacement arrives, if it happens at all. Could be a change for the better and Herbert gets the tools he needs, or it could be worse and the team is a perennial loser. If I'm Spanos, I roll the dice... Mediocrity only takes you so far. My comment about firing TT creates little to no change refers to if J Spanos is actually making the decisions. I believe you base your evaluation of TT's work only looking at the high profile aspects of the GM job. TT is actually an above average GM in my view. We differ, eh D Spanos is not one to embrace big change, but I think he is getting counseled that it is time....just a guess on my part.
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 24, 2023 19:58:36 GMT -7
Spanos' have a history of sticking with GM's longer. Its the owner who cuts the HC too. So really any extended poor performance is the owners fault. Owners rarely act on impulse.....any moves usually have been discussed repeatedly over a bit of time. Yes, there are owners that are the exception......D Spanos is not one of them though.
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Post by afboltfan on Nov 25, 2023 5:46:57 GMT -7
I always said TT is average to mediocre as a GM IMHO. What does firing TT change? No way to know that until a replacement arrives, if it happens at all. Could be a change for the better and Herbert gets the tools he needs, or it could be worse and the team is a perennial loser. If I'm Spanos, I roll the dice... Mediocrity only takes you so far. I believe you base your evaluation of TT's work only looking at the high profile aspects of the GM job. TT is actually an above average GM in my view. We differ, eh D Spanos is not one to embrace big change, but I think he is getting counseled that it is time....just a guess on my part. If Spanos Jr. is actually making the decisions, how is TT an above average GM if he is going along with them? You want to say he does well in some areas but not others because of J Spanos. I don't think it works that way... There is a lot of "if" in your defense of TT, either he gets all the credit or none. We don't know so have to take it at face value that TT is the reason for the talent on the field and influence for the coach on the sideline.
Jerry Jones influences decisions on the Cowboys, Belichick is the GM of the Patriots, we know this. The only place it is ever mentioned that J Spanos influences TT's decisions is on the message boards by fans.
Unless I'm missing something and someone has a link that says otherwise. If so, this team is doomed and I just refused to acknowledge that nepotism is holding it back.
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 25, 2023 8:05:42 GMT -7
My comment about firing TT creates little to no change refers to if J Spanos is actually making the decisions. I believe you base your evaluation of TT's work only looking at the high profile aspects of the GM job. TT is actually an above average GM in my view. We differ, eh D Spanos is not one to embrace big change, but I think he is getting counseled that it is time....just a guess on my part. If Spanos Jr. is actually making the decisions, how is TT an above average GM if he is going along with them? You want to say he does well in some areas but not others because of J Spanos. I don't think it works that way... There is a lot of "if" in your defense of TT, either he gets all the credit or none. We don't know so have to take it at face value that TT is the reason for the talent on the field and influence for the coach on the sideline.
Jerry Jones influences decisions on the Cowboys, Belichick is the GM of the Patriots, we know this. The only place it is ever mentioned that J Spanos influences TT's decisions is on the message boards by fans.
Unless I'm missing something and someone has a link that says otherwise. If so, this team is doomed and I just refused to acknowledge that nepotism is holding it back.
Let me give two examples, both of which are simply made up.... TT and J Spanos are talking FA's....team need and who is available....the club needs a CB badly, but TT doesn't want to sign JC, Spanos says we are, get it done. TT and J Spanos are talking FA's....team need and who is available....the club needs to improve the pass rush....Bears offer Mack...TT is not interested, Spanos says do it. Both of the above examples were high profile moves. One worked out quite well, while the other not so much. TT gets all the fame and blame, he is the face of the organization, just like Staley. Those examples are a micro view of specific events, but when I look to evaluate TT's work, I take the macro view of the organization....which is well run. Might very well be well run because of a bunch of other people doing a great job, and TT just benefits from their efforts.....we don't know, as you said. As far as any of this type of interactions making the media, highly unlikely, as this stuff is universally kept in house. Is there a nepotism aspect? J Spanos is in fact TT's boss, so the structure would say no, but clearly no owner is firing his son in a power battle between the son and GM. Is nepotism holding the club from success....probably not. That said, if TT and J Spanos were both fired today, and both sought out being hired again in the same position, TT gets hired much quicker, or so I would guess.
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Post by afboltfan on Nov 25, 2023 9:47:35 GMT -7
If Spanos Jr. is actually making the decisions, how is TT an above average GM if he is going along with them? You want to say he does well in some areas but not others because of J Spanos. I don't think it works that way... There is a lot of "if" in your defense of TT, either he gets all the credit or none. We don't know so have to take it at face value that TT is the reason for the talent on the field and influence for the coach on the sideline.
Jerry Jones influences decisions on the Cowboys, Belichick is the GM of the Patriots, we know this. The only place it is ever mentioned that J Spanos influences TT's decisions is on the message boards by fans.
Unless I'm missing something and someone has a link that says otherwise. If so, this team is doomed and I just refused to acknowledge that nepotism is holding it back.
Let me give two examples, both of which are simply made up.... TT and J Spanos are talking FA's....team need and who is available....the club needs a CB badly, but TT doesn't want to sign JC, Spanos says we are, get it done. TT and J Spanos are talking FA's....team need and who is available....the club needs to improve the pass rush....Bears offer Mack...TT is not interested, Spanos says do it. Both of the above examples were high profile moves. One worked out quite well, while the other not so much. TT gets all the fame and blame, he is the face of the organization, just like Staley. Those examples are a micro view of specific events, but when I look to evaluate TT's work, I take the macro view of the organization....which is well run. Might very well be well run because of a bunch of other people doing a great job, and TT just benefits from their efforts.....we don't know, as you said. As far as any of this type of interactions making the media, highly unlikely, as this stuff is universally kept in house. Is there a nepotism aspect? J Spanos is in fact TT's boss, so the structure would say no, but clearly no owner is firing his son in a power battle between the son and GM. Is nepotism holding the club from success....probably not. That said, if TT and J Spanos were both fired today, and both sought out being hired again in the same position, TT gets hired much quicker, or so I would guess. Ok fine... But maybe your not understanding what I'm eluding too. In both of your examples J Spanos is telling TT what to do, if TT does not agree then what self respecting GM of an NFL team stays with that team for 11+ years??? Like you said, TT gets rehired much quicker so why doesn't he leave? TT is just as culpable as J Spanos or anyone else in upper management.
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Post by sonorajim on Nov 25, 2023 12:05:09 GMT -7
Who are you and what have you done with Frozen??? I thought TT could do no wrong?
Welcome to the party!
I like TT and the work he has done as GM, for the most part. I do think he catches heat for stuff that is probably out of his actual control, but he is the face of the club so..... My big issue with both TT and J Spanos is letting the debacle of Staley's approach to defence go on and on and on.....it is terrible, and the results clearly show that. Poor defence year one, no adjustment in off season....poor defence year two, no adjustment in off season...... poor defence year three.....fire them all. It should have been addressed, it was not, so it costs you your job. Ignoring it is simply unacceptable.....TT should have forced change! Of course if J Spanos is saying leave it alone TT, then who is really at fault here. We were better than avg pass D , bottom run D in '22, better than avg run D, bottom pass D in '23. Not a satisfying result from change but a change nonetheless. Scoring D? not much different. Some specific stats have improved but overall points allowed? Just bad. A big improvement over the next seven games could save the season but it's not likely. And if so, what then? Staley's struggles up to now as Chargers DC/ HC have featured a lot of spells of weak D and an overall significantly substandard product. It's a fail.
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Post by totallybolted on Nov 25, 2023 15:41:35 GMT -7
weird though is the take aways. isn't the D on the positive side, by a lot?
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 25, 2023 17:38:13 GMT -7
Let me give two examples, both of which are simply made up.... TT and J Spanos are talking FA's....team need and who is available....the club needs a CB badly, but TT doesn't want to sign JC, Spanos says we are, get it done. TT and J Spanos are talking FA's....team need and who is available....the club needs to improve the pass rush....Bears offer Mack...TT is not interested, Spanos says do it. Both of the above examples were high profile moves. One worked out quite well, while the other not so much. TT gets all the fame and blame, he is the face of the organization, just like Staley. Those examples are a micro view of specific events, but when I look to evaluate TT's work, I take the macro view of the organization....which is well run. Might very well be well run because of a bunch of other people doing a great job, and TT just benefits from their efforts.....we don't know, as you said. As far as any of this type of interactions making the media, highly unlikely, as this stuff is universally kept in house. Is there a nepotism aspect? J Spanos is in fact TT's boss, so the structure would say no, but clearly no owner is firing his son in a power battle between the son and GM. Is nepotism holding the club from success....probably not. That said, if TT and J Spanos were both fired today, and both sought out being hired again in the same position, TT gets hired much quicker, or so I would guess. Ok fine... But maybe your not understanding what I'm eluding too. In both of your examples J Spanos is telling TT what to do, if TT does not agree then what self respecting GM of an NFL team stays with that team for 11+ years??? Like you said, TT gets rehired much quicker so why doesn't he leave? TT is just as culpable as J Spanos or anyone else in upper management. You are asking me to read the mind of TT.....impossible to do, but you know that. My opinion on the question at hand.....he stays for several reasons. He is one of 32 GM's in the NFL... He enjoys the pay..... He thinks there might be a Super Bowl win at some point..... His wife likes living in the warm sun of Los Angeles, forbids him to quit.... He is a little girl too afraid to walk away..... OK, that last one I was teasing you with......truthfully, I have no idea why he stays. Why do any stay....worst job in professional sports.
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Post by chargerfreak on Nov 27, 2023 6:15:04 GMT -7
Ok fine... But maybe your not understanding what I'm eluding too. In both of your examples J Spanos is telling TT what to do, if TT does not agree then what self respecting GM of an NFL team stays with that team for 11+ years??? Like you said, TT gets rehired much quicker so why doesn't he leave? TT is just as culpable as J Spanos or anyone else in upper management. You are asking me to read the mind of TT.....impossible to do, but you know that. My opinion on the question at hand.....he stays for several reasons. He is one of 32 GM's in the NFL... He enjoys the pay..... He thinks there might be a Super Bowl win at some point..... His wife likes living in the warm sun of Los Angeles, forbids him to quit.... He is a little girl too afraid to walk away..... OK, that last one I was teasing you with......truthfully, I have no idea why he stays. Why do any stay....worst job in professional sports. You get to draft and handle the players of a real NFL team ? I know fantasy players that would take that job for free.
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Post by amped on Dec 5, 2023 9:33:50 GMT -7
“We were just talking about how great the young quarterback play is in the National Football League. All these great young quarterbacks: Burrow, Mahomes … He spent five minutes telling me that he thinks Justin Herbert is the best of all of them. He loves Herbert,” Greenberg said.
this is cool until.. well spanos.
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Post by afboltfan on Dec 5, 2023 11:36:42 GMT -7
“We were just talking about how great the young quarterback play is in the National Football League. All these great young quarterbacks: Burrow, Mahomes … He spent five minutes telling me that he thinks Justin Herbert is the best of all of them. He loves Herbert,” Greenberg said.
this is cool until.. well spanos. Hopefully they wake up to reality and make a good change for once...
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Post by lightsout42 on Dec 5, 2023 12:06:35 GMT -7
I think Harbaugh is incredibly unlikely. It’s probably just creating a better market for the Bears gig.
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Post by jwr10x on Dec 5, 2023 17:14:30 GMT -7
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Post by afboltfan on Dec 5, 2023 18:42:38 GMT -7
I seriously hope not... He seems to be just another coordinator with a talented roster and strong HC to fall back on. We can't keep doing this and expect different results... ugh.
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Post by lightsout42 on Dec 5, 2023 20:09:38 GMT -7
Ben Johnson is the top offensive candidate this cycle. Definitely on my short list.
Unless you bring in a Quinn or Harbaugh (neither would be my pick for different reasons, but both have proven experience), you basically have to take a flyer with an up and coming coach.
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