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Post by frozendisc on Nov 10, 2019 13:43:27 GMT -7
Some how many plays does a player need to get beat on to determine he sucked? One? A percentage of plays? The number of sacks? Two or three plays more than Okung would have given up? Not even Okung was going to win them all. maybe we should compare him to all the other line positions and do an eval there? How about we compare him to PR? You solve nothing. Okung getting cut is probably not what is going to happen. He may walk away on his own. Lame attempts at comparing Pipkins to Okung are laughable. He wasn't comparing them, he was trying to determine the criteria you are using to judge them.
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 10, 2019 13:48:28 GMT -7
Some how many plays does a player need to get beat on to determine he sucked? One? A percentage of plays? The number of sacks? Two or three plays more than Okung would have given up? Not even Okung was going to win them all. maybe we should compare him to all the other line positions and do an eval there? How about we compare him to PR? You solve nothing. Okung getting cut is probably not what is going to happen. He may walk away on his own. Okung won't walk away from $16 million at this juncture of his career. He'll have to be pushed out. I prefer to do comparison's a different way. 1). Compare the overall effectiveness of the offense when Okung is in/out. How about the GB game to the OAK game...? We are a much better team with Okung in vs. Pipkins/Scott in. 2). Compare Okung to any 1st round OT choice in the 2020 draft. IMO, there are 4 OT's that I think could hold their own immediately. Obviously, they would also be more cap friendly and allow us to invest FA money in the IOL positions. The problem we've been having with the OL in general over the years is that we're always weak at 2 or 3 positions. Teams expose another team's weakness... it's the way of the NFL. Get stronger at every OL position or we solve nothing. Right now we have playmakers on the offense, yet we are 20th in the NFL at scoring (20.7 pts/game). And the defense really isn't the problem (9th in the NFL)... even with DJ out. Okung could decide his life is not worth the risk......but if I was TT, Okung would know at season end he wasn't coming back. Early release is a respectful release.
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Post by boltnut on Nov 10, 2019 20:42:09 GMT -7
Okung won't walk away from $16 million at this juncture of his career. He'll have to be pushed out. I prefer to do comparison's a different way. 1). Compare the overall effectiveness of the offense when Okung is in/out. How about the GB game to the OAK game...? We are a much better team with Okung in vs. Pipkins/Scott in. 2). Compare Okung to any 1st round OT choice in the 2020 draft. IMO, there are 4 OT's that I think could hold their own immediately. Obviously, they would also be more cap friendly and allow us to invest FA money in the IOL positions. The problem we've been having with the OL in general over the years is that we're always weak at 2 or 3 positions. Teams expose another team's weakness... it's the way of the NFL. Get stronger at every OL position or we solve nothing. Right now we have playmakers on the offense, yet we are 20th in the NFL at scoring (20.7 pts/game). And the defense really isn't the problem (9th in the NFL)... even with DJ out. Okung could decide his life is not worth the risk......but if I was TT, Okung would know at season end he wasn't coming back. Early release is a respectful release. I agree. We owe Okung that.
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Post by boltnut on Nov 10, 2019 20:53:47 GMT -7
I'm 99.9% sure that Pipkins gave up at least 1 sack... if not more. Clelin Ferrell had 2.5 sacks last night. I know he also got help from TE's and RB's last night. Am I cutting him slack...? Probably, he's as raw as they get. And if you cut every crappy/injured OT on the team... you have exactly 0 OT's on your roster. Pouncey and Okung are good... when they're on the field. But recently they haven't been on the field. They both have injury/health history. And if you're cutting salaries to create cap space... this is where you start. Cutting these two creates $18 million in space. That could but you an IOL and a RT in FA. Replace Okung/Pouncey through the draft. TT needs to move into a pretty committed OL rebuild, and that means releasing guys. The cap dance is going to be very important, but just having cap space is no guarantee that any FA solution is obtainable. Everything should be considered......trade, FA's, and draft. True, having cap space does not guarantee that FA's can be obtained. But at least you're able to put together competitive offers for the FA's you want. And I'm not sure any Chargers would fetch much in a trade. Bosa and Ingram would fetch the most... but I'm not sure there is anyone in this upcoming draft that could replace either's production (outside of Chase Young). Chase Young should go top-3. I wouldn't trade players that create more holes in the roster... especially if you think the replacements couldn't possibly replace the production traded away.
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 10, 2019 20:58:45 GMT -7
TT needs to move into a pretty committed OL rebuild, and that means releasing guys. The cap dance is going to be very important, but just having cap space is no guarantee that any FA solution is obtainable. Everything should be considered......trade, FA's, and draft. True, having cap space does not guarantee that FA's can be obtained. But at least you're able to put together competitive offers for the FA's you want. And I'm not sure any Chargers would fetch much in a trade. Bosa and Ingram would fetch the most... but I'm not sure there is anyone in this upcoming draft that could replace either's production (outside of Chase Young). Chase Young should go top-3. I wouldn't trade players that create more holes in the roster... especially if you think the replacements couldn't possibly replace the production traded away. I would not trade any core player, but outside of that, there are players that other clubs might have interest in. King might be one....or perhaps Mike Williams.....but any trade comes down to the return. Most likely the solutions will be found in possible FA's and the draft.
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Post by boltnut on Nov 11, 2019 14:08:33 GMT -7
True, having cap space does not guarantee that FA's can be obtained. But at least you're able to put together competitive offers for the FA's you want. And I'm not sure any Chargers would fetch much in a trade. Bosa and Ingram would fetch the most... but I'm not sure there is anyone in this upcoming draft that could replace either's production (outside of Chase Young). Chase Young should go top-3. I wouldn't trade players that create more holes in the roster... especially if you think the replacements couldn't possibly replace the production traded away. I would not trade any core player, but outside of that, there are players that other clubs might have interest in. King might be one....or perhaps Mike Williams.....but any trade comes down to the return. Most likely the solutions will be found in possible FA's and the draft. I'd keep both Mike Williams and Desmond King. Without those two, our WR and CB positions become very thin. In fact, I'd target both of those positions in the draft (without trading MW and DK) to ensure depth. I hope the main priority is to retain a couple of our core players that are set to hit FA this offseason... and I'd start with Hunter Henry and Philip Rivers. Probably cost us $9 million and $26 million respectively. $35 million of our $55 million cap space may be eaten up just by re-signing those two.
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Post by boltnut on Nov 11, 2019 14:33:28 GMT -7
If we want any re-building done this free agency, there will have to be iron fist cuts to players that are, old, injury-prone, or costly. Okung (13.5), Pouncey (4.725), Mebane (4.25), Perryman (6.55), Thomas Davis (5.25), and Tyrod Taylor (5 mil) all fit those requirements. That would be $39,275,000 in savings. www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-chargers/cap/2020/Would the Chargers cut all of those core veterans...? Probably not. All of them would have to be replaced in FA or the draft. But that is almost $33 million in players salaries that were brought in as FA's in the first place. Only Perryman was drafted by Chargers. |
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 11, 2019 16:10:42 GMT -7
I would not trade any core player, but outside of that, there are players that other clubs might have interest in. King might be one....or perhaps Mike Williams.....but any trade comes down to the return. Most likely the solutions will be found in possible FA's and the draft. I'd keep both Mike Williams and Desmond King. Without those two, our WR and CB positions become very thin. In fact, I'd target both of those positions in the draft (without trading MW and DK) to ensure depth. I hope the main priority is to retain a couple of our core players that are set to hit FA this offseason... and I'd start with Hunter Henry and Philip Rivers. Probably cost us $9 million and $26 million respectively. $35 million of our $55 million cap space may be eaten up just by re-signing those two. Any trading needs to be looked at after the return is known. Impossible for us to know, so suffice it to say TT should always listen. Retaining HH and Rivers is the plan I would think, but if Rivers isn't coming back, it is a full rebuild.
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 11, 2019 16:14:19 GMT -7
If we want any re-building done this free agency, there will have to be iron fist cuts to players that are, old, injury-prone, or costly. Okung (13.5), Pouncey (4.725), Mebane (4.25), Perryman (6.55), Thomas Davis (5.25), and Tyrod Taylor (5 mil) all fit those requirements. That would be $39,275,000 in savings. www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-chargers/cap/2020/Would the Chargers cut all of those core veterans...? Probably not. All of them would have to be replaced in FA or the draft. But that is almost $33 million in players salaries that were brought in as FA's in the first place. Only Perryman was drafted by Chargers. I would release all of those mentioned, for various reasons.
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Post by lazylightning on Nov 11, 2019 18:39:25 GMT -7
If we want any re-building done this free agency, there will have to be iron fist cuts to players that are, old, injury-prone, or costly. Okung (13.5), Pouncey (4.725), Mebane (4.25), Perryman (6.55), Thomas Davis (5.25), and Tyrod Taylor (5 mil) all fit those requirements. That would be $39,275,000 in savings. www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-chargers/cap/2020/Would the Chargers cut all of those core veterans...? Probably not. All of them would have to be replaced in FA or the draft. But that is almost $33 million in players salaries that were brought in as FA's in the first place. Only Perryman was drafted by Chargers. Okung and Pouncey together will raise the level of play of the supporting cast. They are also wily veterans who know when to raise and know when to fold. Give them support and the will respond.
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 11, 2019 19:56:45 GMT -7
If we want any re-building done this free agency, there will have to be iron fist cuts to players that are, old, injury-prone, or costly. Okung (13.5), Pouncey (4.725), Mebane (4.25), Perryman (6.55), Thomas Davis (5.25), and Tyrod Taylor (5 mil) all fit those requirements. That would be $39,275,000 in savings. www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-chargers/cap/2020/Would the Chargers cut all of those core veterans...? Probably not. All of them would have to be replaced in FA or the draft. But that is almost $33 million in players salaries that were brought in as FA's in the first place. Only Perryman was drafted by Chargers. Okung and Pouncey together will raise the level of play of the supporting cast. They are also wily veterans who know when to raise and know when to fold. Give them support and the will respond. Both have injury concerns that combined with their cost make their release the best option for the club.
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Post by lazylightning on Nov 11, 2019 20:38:21 GMT -7
Okung and Pouncey together will raise the level of play of the supporting cast. They are also wily veterans who know when to raise and know when to fold. Give them support and the will respond. Both have injury concerns that combined with their cost make their release the best option for the club. Why is it the best option? What are the options?
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 11, 2019 20:44:23 GMT -7
Both have injury concerns that combined with their cost make their release the best option for the club. Why is it the best option? What are the options? How much has Okung been available, or Pouncy......rather than pay them to be injured, move on and use that money on a more productive player........hopefully.
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Post by lazylightning on Nov 11, 2019 21:20:31 GMT -7
Why is it the best option? What are the options? How much has Okung been available, or Pouncy......rather than pay them to be injured, move on and use that money on a more productive player........hopefully. I agree one hundred percent to use money on productive/un-injured players. Why do you think it is the best option to drop Okung/Pouncy? What are the options?
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Post by frozendisc on Nov 11, 2019 22:00:35 GMT -7
How much has Okung been available, or Pouncy......rather than pay them to be injured, move on and use that money on a more productive player........hopefully. I agree one hundred percent to use money on productive/un-injured players. Why do you think it is the best option to drop Okung/Pouncy? What are the options? How hard is this for you? Okung and Pouncy are injury concerns at this point in their careers, and they are expensive......move on from them. Who do you move on to specifically you might be asking.......I don't know, perhaps someone that is actually available to play.
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