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Post by frozendisc on May 13, 2019 20:43:21 GMT -7
It starts with the talent, and the Patriots seem to have a good eye for that talent. Maybe but Nate solder left for big money and crapped out completely. Coaching is underrated Perhaps the Patriots realized Solder was playing above his talent, and had little issue with him moving on, knowing the fall was coming.
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Post by moekid on May 13, 2019 20:56:36 GMT -7
Maybe but Nate solder left for big money and crapped out completely. Coaching is underrated Perhaps the Patriots realized Solder was playing above his talent, and had little issue with him moving on, knowing the fall was coming. Nope. |
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Post by boltnut on May 13, 2019 21:52:29 GMT -7
The Patriots drafted Solder with a 1st and used the 5th year option ($16 million total). Then they extended him (2yrs/$20 million). 7 years, $36 million. Around $5 million/yr. Then when it gets too expensive... re-draft a 1st rounder. So smart. Meanwhile, we're paying $32 million over the next 2 years for a slightly above average LT... with no successor in sight.
If... IF Pipkins develops into a LT, it won't be for a couple more years. Then 2 years after that, you gotta draft another LT... or pay the man.
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Post by frozendisc on May 14, 2019 6:49:40 GMT -7
The Patriots drafted Solder with a 1st and used the 5th year option ($16 million total). Then they extended him (2yrs/$20 million). 7 years, $36 million. Around $5 million/yr. Then when it gets too expensive... re-draft a 1st rounder. So smart. Meanwhile, we're paying $32 million over the next 2 years for a slightly above average LT... with no successor in sight. If... IF Pipkins develops into a LT, it won't be for a couple more years. Then 2 years after that, you gotta draft another LT... or pay the man. Winning generally equates to being smart.......Patriots win plenty. I would be quite happy if Pipkins is the starting ROT at the conclusion of TC2019, but only if he is starting because his talent beats out his competitors, and the results support his playing. I do not see it happening, as starting a rookie is not AL's style.....I worry AL will even give the kid enough reps to get a decent evaluation of him by us fans.
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Post by totallybolted on May 14, 2019 7:04:31 GMT -7
A lot of people admire NE's OL Coach Dante Scarnecchia and deservedly so. The Pats consistently do very well indeed with unheralded mid - late rd, UDFA OL personnel. My question would be " Are they an immediate success, start and play well their first year in the NFL?"..or does NE bring them along over a period of time? HC Lynn and his OL Coach Pat Meyer are entering their 3rd year with the Chargers. If it's possible for others to develop OL personnel, why not us? For my part, I believe hand wringing over OL is currently premature. We did OK last year and should be better. It remains to be proven, either way. Patriots "mid/late round, UDFA OL personnel" is mainly found at the IOL positions (G/C). But the Patriots have always paid particular attention to the quality of their OT's. From 2011-2017, they had 1st round draft pick Nate Solder playing LT. In 2018, they drafted 1st round pick Isaiah Wynn. Prior to Solder, they had 2nd rounder Matt Light (2001-2011) at LT. Solder actually played RT in 2011. 2nd rounder Sebastian Vollmer (2009-2015) took over RT in 2012. That's how you do it people! In 2011, they had a 2nd round veteran at LT (Light), a newly drafted 1st rounder (Solder) at RT, and a 2nd rounder (Vollmer) riding pine as a swing tackle. This is no mistake... they are not drafting OT's in the (5th)...guys that used to be DT's...or developmental 3rd rounders from Sioux Falls. Their franchise is their QB. There is a plan. Even when their 1st round OT (Wynn) goes down with an achilles tear in TC... there is a plan. Anyone know how LaAdrian Waddle and Trent Brown came to be in New England...? They were proven/productive vets coming off injury and via trade respectively... PRE-INJURY! Marcus Cannon was the only mid/late pick @ot that was "developed". And was given 5 years before he started @rt... Thanks for that. Perspective
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Post by chargerfreak on May 14, 2019 7:23:38 GMT -7
The Patriots drafted Solder with a 1st and used the 5th year option ($16 million total). Then they extended him (2yrs/$20 million). 7 years, $36 million. Around $5 million/yr. Then when it gets too expensive... re-draft a 1st rounder. So smart. Meanwhile, we're paying $32 million over the next 2 years for a slightly above average LT... with no successor in sight. If... IF Pipkins develops into a LT, it won't be for a couple more years. Then 2 years after that, you gotta draft another LT... or pay the man. Winning generally equates to being smart.......Patriots win plenty. I would be quite happy if Pipkins is the starting ROT at the conclusion of TC2019, but only if he is starting because his talent beats out his competitors, and the results support his playing. I do not see it happening, as starting a rookie is not AL's style.....I worry AL will even give the kid enough reps to get a decent evaluation of him by us fans. I'd be happy if he FINDS TC2019............................
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Post by frozendisc on May 14, 2019 8:58:18 GMT -7
Winning generally equates to being smart.......Patriots win plenty. I would be quite happy if Pipkins is the starting ROT at the conclusion of TC2019, but only if he is starting because his talent beats out his competitors, and the results support his playing. I do not see it happening, as starting a rookie is not AL's style.....I worry AL will even give the kid enough reps to get a decent evaluation of him by us fans. I'd be happy if he FINDS TC2019............................ I'd be happy if you would free WoodMod.......
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Post by sonorajim on May 14, 2019 9:08:37 GMT -7
It starts with the talent, and the Patriots seem to have a good eye for that talent. Maybe but Nate solder left for big money and crapped out completely. Coaching is underrated Apparently but it is nor universal. The team concept applies throughout also. "Fit" is a must. Position coaching to player skill set to unit strengths to team strengths to play calling and so on. It's no single answer. Bellichick's Pats leave no stone unturned. We will never be them but may beat them IF Lynn, staff & players find their Chargers way. 3rd year may be the charm. Got my fingers crossed. Developing players, returning healthy talent from IR, new talent from draft & FA, lessons learned in 1st two yrs together- LAC looks good right now. 
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Post by chargerfreak on May 14, 2019 9:50:06 GMT -7
The Patriots drafted Solder with a 1st and used the 5th year option ($16 million total). Then they extended him (2yrs/$20 million). 7 years, $36 million. Around $5 million/yr. Then when it gets too expensive... re-draft a 1st rounder. So smart. Meanwhile, we're paying $32 million over the next 2 years for a slightly above average LT... with no successor in sight. If... IF Pipkins develops into a LT, it won't be for a couple more years. Then 2 years after that, you gotta draft another LT... or pay the man. Winning generally equates to being smart.......Patriots win plenty. I would be quite happy if Pipkins is the starting ROT at the conclusion of TC2019, but only if he is starting because his talent beats out his competitors, and the results support his playing. I do not see it happening, as starting a rookie is not AL's style.....I worry AL will even give the kid enough reps to get a decent evaluation of him by us fans. Please go back to your "talent plays, talent plays, talent plays" mantra. I laugh. My secret weapon is Coach Lynn. He will slap his rookie butt so far back he will land in Sioux Falls. Gonna send a Sioux Falls rookie out to protect Franchise Rivers. C'mon man.
Talent plays....but he can't beat out Tevi. Tevi mind you. Did I mention Tevi ?
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Post by boltnut on May 14, 2019 9:50:21 GMT -7
The Patriots drafted Solder with a 1st and used the 5th year option ($16 million total). Then they extended him (2yrs/$20 million). 7 years, $36 million. Around $5 million/yr. Then when it gets too expensive... re-draft a 1st rounder. So smart. Meanwhile, we're paying $32 million over the next 2 years for a slightly above average LT... with no successor in sight. If... IF Pipkins develops into a LT, it won't be for a couple more years. Then 2 years after that, you gotta draft another LT... or pay the man. Winning generally equates to being smart.......Patriots win plenty. I would be quite happy if Pipkins is the starting ROT at the conclusion of TC2019, but only if he is starting because his talent beats out his competitors, and the results support his playing. I do not see it happening, as starting a rookie is not AL's style.....I worry AL will even give the kid enough reps to get a decent evaluation of him by us fans. Hopes and prayers...
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Post by chargerfreak on May 14, 2019 9:56:26 GMT -7
Winning generally equates to being smart.......Patriots win plenty. I would be quite happy if Pipkins is the starting ROT at the conclusion of TC2019, but only if he is starting because his talent beats out his competitors, and the results support his playing. I do not see it happening, as starting a rookie is not AL's style.....I worry AL will even give the kid enough reps to get a decent evaluation of him by us fans. Hopes and prayers... He can play against Hope and Prayers, its Freaking JJ Watt and Clowney this year !!!!!!!!!!
THINK about that for a minute. Just picture it. Wow.
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Post by frozendisc on May 14, 2019 10:29:32 GMT -7
Winning generally equates to being smart.......Patriots win plenty. I would be quite happy if Pipkins is the starting ROT at the conclusion of TC2019, but only if he is starting because his talent beats out his competitors, and the results support his playing. I do not see it happening, as starting a rookie is not AL's style.....I worry AL will even give the kid enough reps to get a decent evaluation of him by us fans. Please go back to your "talent plays, talent plays, talent plays" mantra. I laugh. My secret weapon is Coach Lynn. He will slap his rookie butt so far back he will land in Sioux Falls. Gonna send a Sioux Falls rookie out to protect Franchise Rivers. C'mon man.
Talent plays....but he can't beat out Tevi. Tevi mind you. Did I mention Tevi ?
If Pipkins gets a fair look, I think he does beat out Tevi....... TC2019 is going to be fun around here.....
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Post by frozendisc on May 14, 2019 10:31:40 GMT -7
He can play against Hope and Prayers, its Freaking JJ Watt and Clowney this year !!!!!!!!!!
THINK about that for a minute. Just picture it. Wow.
Well we know what will happen if Tevi is out there, so think about that for awhile....
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Post by moekid on May 14, 2019 10:37:05 GMT -7
The five most commonly used linemen this season for New England were left tackle Trent Brown, left guard Joe Thuney, center David Andrews, right guard Shaq Mason and right tackle Marcus Cannon. That quintet combined to start 75 of a possible 80 games along the offensive line. Here's how the Patriots acquired those players: Brown, a former seventh-round pick of the 49ers in 2015, was acquired last offseason as part of a pick swap. The Patriots sent the No. 95 overall pick in the 2018 draft to San Francisco in exchange for Brown and the No. 143 pick, which is essentially like giving up a mid-fourth round pick for a starting left tackle. Thuney was a third-round pick in 2016. He has started all 48 regular-season games for the Patriots since that point. Andrews was signed as an undrafted free agent out of Georgia in 2015. He made the team out of camp and started right away, and has started 57 of a possible 64 games since. Mason was selected with a 2015 fourth-round pick. He played as part of a rotation during the early part of his rookie season before sliding into the lineup for good, and has blossomed into one of the very best guards in the league. Cannon was a fifth-round pick in 2011 who started a grand total of 11 games in his first four years. He slid into the lineup for an injured starter in 2015 and never gave up the spot, and has started every game that he has been healthy over the past four seasons. That's a full offensive line built out of mid- and late-round picks. That's pretty ridiculous in and of itself. But that group was not sieve-like, which you would expect such a unit to be. Rather, it was arguably the single best line in the league this season, ranking third in Adjusted Line Yards, first in Adjusted Sack Rate and third in pressure rate. All for the ridiculously low cost of just $14,539,489 against the cap. By way of comparison, consider the Chargers, who took on a cap hit of $14,968,750 this year for just left tackle Russell Okung, who gave up more sacks during the Chargers' divisional round loss to the Patriots (one) than the Patriots have all postseason.
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Post by chargerfreak on May 14, 2019 10:50:27 GMT -7
Please go back to your "talent plays, talent plays, talent plays" mantra. I laugh. My secret weapon is Coach Lynn. He will slap his rookie butt so far back he will land in Sioux Falls. Gonna send a Sioux Falls rookie out to protect Franchise Rivers. C'mon man.
Talent plays....but he can't beat out Tevi. Tevi mind you. Did I mention Tevi ?
If Pipkins gets a fair look, I think he does beat out Tevi....... TC2019 is going to be fun around here..... The entire Chargers Org. is going to put their 3rd round pick on the field and not give him "a fair look" ?
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